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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,418

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Six Ball : Look at the rear suspension details on Ford "A-A" & "B-B" trucks from 1928 through 1936 : The spring pivots in the center(where it's mounted to the frame), has a shackle in the front(also frame mounted),& usually is attached TO THE AXLE HOUSING with a clamp with a bearing inside(like a connecting rod from a motor) so that it may pivot freely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  2. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    12003129_10207606152302474_2867132608437847030_n.jpg 1914. Meeting of boulogne-Sur-Mer. Bertin on hispano-Suiza 3 litre
     
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  3. In regard to Six Ball's question, wouldn't it be easier/lighter/better to just use a quarter elliptic spring instead?
     
  4. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,492

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    from FRENCHTOWN

  5. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,885

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    I'm still trying to get my head around it but looking at the AA Ford rear springs helps. I think that this setup would be more stable than just 1/4 elliptics due to the extra length and forward attachment. I might try this on my '26 Chevy roadster. My plan was 1/4 elliptic/ triangulated 4 link with the springs as the lower links. I'll at least consider this on my Essex speedster.
     
  6. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,418

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Six Ball : I noticed a 'typo' in my previous post , so I edited it in caps(see above). It'll make it a little more clear. I also like your '4-link' idea, & I seem to recollect seeing it used somewhere else: should work just fine(maybe add a long as possible parallel panhard rod to keep it aligned for a front axle; for the rear, the axle housing/torque tube should keep it aligned).
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  7. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,885

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Thanks, I get it now and I like it. This thread is such a great source. These guys tried everything. It's all outside the box, in fact it was before the box. I noticed that the picture I posted has a sign that says Pikes Peak. I think I lifted it from earlier in this thread. I'd like to see more of that car. Here is a link to a great build that uses 1/4 elliptic and triangulated bars.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/malcolm-model-a-roadster-build.567286/
     
  8. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,941

    The37Kid
    Member

    Rolls Royce used that rear spring setup up into the early 1930's. If you do a Google search some photos will come up. Bob

    upload_2016-9-22_21-49-21.png
     
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  9. Rootie Kazoootie
    Joined: Nov 27, 2006
    Posts: 8,134

    Rootie Kazoootie
    Member
    from Colorado

    It's the Broadmoor Spl. Pikes Peak car and lives at the PP museum these days. Google it for more info. Penrose-PikesPeakHillclimbMuseum-CB.jpg
     
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  10. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,885

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    PP= Pikes Peak Museum? My Texas trip next summer will include a visit there, Thanks! I think my 1919 Essex will lean pretty heavily on this car. There is a lot to like there. That picture clearly shows the pivot in the center of the spring. Of course there are the Essex Pikes Peak cars too'
    ad4499 (1).jpg
     
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  11. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    upload_2016-9-29_19-54-31.png
    Cartoon by "Casque" Sammy Davis
     
  12. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Now here's a rare bird, of which I'd never previously heard. I was browsing a German photo archive and at first glance of the thumbnail of this unidentified car I thought it was von Brauchitsch's SSKL Flying Cucumber. On closer inspection it turned out to be far more interesting! It appears to be a very early photo of what became the Hemphill Schools Waukesha Diesel record car - about which precious little seems to be known! There are a few pictures of it at Daytona in February 1935 and some references in Popular Mechanics, but if you look carefully at this one, it seems to be wearing a temporary (plywood? balsa?) body.
    [​IMG]

    Here it is in final form:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
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  13. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

  14. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Here's Monsieur Stapp's monster record car again. This time - a rear view! And a portrait of the man himself.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  15. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

    14671315_10210992729843136_495809454354523121_n.jpg 14670650_727763717361724_6987791025889178470_n.jpg A couple of mercer images. The first one is in Los Angeles in 1919 with Joe Thomas driving. The second one has Louis Nikrent listed as the driver...no location or date.
     
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  16. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,086

    jimdillon
    Member

    Great pics Bob. The overhead cam Mercer pic is a very clear pic that shows off the engine quite well. The second pic I believe is Louis Nikrent at the 1915 Vanderbilt Cup at San Francisco won by Resta in a Peugeot. I believe this Mercer is one of Eric Delling's L-head 298 cubic inch engines. Delling was Mercer's chief engineer at the time and Mercer was adopting the L-head for passenger cars so they wanted to prove how good they were I suppose. Delling I believe was a real accomplished engineer (although history may not have been as kind to him) and he designed some really great stuff. Mercer attempted to qualify one of these L-heads at Indy in 1914 but it was too slow (Pullen was first alternate due to lack of speed I believe). Mercer had success with their Type 45 T-heads during the period but attempted to qualify another L-head at the 1915 Indy classic but not with good result. They had attempted to qualify some overhead cam cars (different from the one pictured above) but withdrew them when they experienced problems-allegedly piston issues. When they attempted to qualify one of the L-heads in its place they once again were too slow and they missed the race.

    This Nikrent car did not do very well at the Vanderbilt Cup as they lasted only a few laps before engine problems.
     
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  17. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

    14633075_10210879709699363_2310081107242699437_n.jpg W. Grover-Williams,winner of the 1929 Monaco GP,in his Type35B.
     
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  18. bugatti7
    Joined: Jan 7, 2013
    Posts: 46

    bugatti7
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    from Germany

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  19. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  20. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

  21. fnqvmuch
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 275

    fnqvmuch
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  22. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    For those who might be interested the café deL' Hippodrome was on the Hippodrome straight, almost opposite the grandstands and the pits (The other Bentley boys by Elizabeth Nagel page 119, Le Mans 1929)
     
  23. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,019

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  24. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,885

    Six Ball
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    from Nevada

    That is scary just to look at. Racing on that would be a commitment from the get go.:eek:
     
  25. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,492

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I've ridden on a track like that (Bloomer Park, Rochester MI, 44 deg. banking) on a fixed gear race bike and it scared me. Before getting up to speed you could reach out your right hand and touch the track. You need to do it at least once if you're an adrenaline junkie.
     
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  27. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,885

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I read somewhere that they used bikes with motors to help the bicycle racers practice drafting and that the first velodrome motorcycle race was the day two trainers showed up. Good story whether true or not.:cool:
     
  28. jroberts
    Joined: Oct 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,639

    jroberts
    Member

    For track racing the bikes never have brakes. The bikes are also fixed gears. The reason is that if you slow down too fast you'll fall and slide down to the bottom of the track. Bad enough when it is only you, but even worse when other riders are nearby. As the Frenchtown Flyer said it can be a real adrenaline rush.
     
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,492

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    ..a lot like going down the back stretch at Daytona in a NASCAR where if you slow down you're likely to get plowed into - only on two wheels with your feet clipped into the pedals...
     

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