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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    This machine must have had a significant influence on the design of the Buick Bug.
     
  2. WillyNilly
    Joined: Apr 7, 2013
    Posts: 240

    WillyNilly
    Member
    from NorCal

  3. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    1916, Packard patented a light racing body that could be quickly removed - Packard Patent for Race Car Body.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  4. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,831

    jimdillon
    Member

    Lee that is a cool picture of the Packard 299 body. I had to dig out my file on this to make sure it was the exact same number as I have not looked at it in years. If you look closely at the first body on the car you can see the seam running down the length of the body. There was a hole in the rear of the tail where you could put a socket in the hole and with a twist remove the body. They raved about this when the car was first built in 1916. They ended up patenting a number of features of the car including the engine itself and various parts of the engine, such as the generator and cam covers and the intake etc. Here is one picture where you can see the seam (De Palma joking with Milton) RD-Milton.jpg . Edward Belden was a Detroit inventor who did work for a number of clients including Willys Overland. I am not sure how he became associated with Packard in regards to the body.
     
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  5. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    Packard Patent for Race Car Body 2.jpg It's strange that they patented a race car body. I can't imagine any other racers lining up to pay royalty fees for using the idea.
     
  6. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,831

    jimdillon
    Member

    Lee I am not sure Belden was patenting the race car body per se but rather the "art" of the way in which a body could be removed so easily. Engineers then and now protect their "art" just as much (if not moreso) than let's say some of the photographers that protect their photos, and one could use the same logic for many others work.

    They also patented the engine and its various parts when in reality they only built 2 engines and were outdated by the time the patents were granted. If I had to guess patenting their work was probably pretty second nature. I am glad they did as it helps really paint a picture of how the car, the body and engine was built.

    I do not have a picture with the body removed although I wish I did. Other than the fuel tank I am not sure how much they were hiding in the tail.
     
  7. simplex2stroke
    Joined: Nov 2, 2010
    Posts: 10

    simplex2stroke
    Member
    from USA

    I recently obtained this excellent photo circa 1909. The two outside cars are Simplex the leader is a Knox. Any thoughts as to which track the photo was taken. I suspect East coast, but not sure.
    upload_2016-8-31_15-35-5.png
     
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  8. WillyNilly
    Joined: Apr 7, 2013
    Posts: 240

    WillyNilly
    Member
    from NorCal

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Anybody know anything about the Keeton? Looks like it's based on a Renault.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  9. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    My elderly friend (Bud Barrett) back in Dedham MA. put together this "Readville Story" about 20 years ago but was not able to get it published - he finally had a few dozen made and so there are very few copies; he gave me one and another is held by Joe Freeman of Racemaker Press in Boston. I believe Joe may have a rewrite planned at some point in the future. Your photo comes probably from a 2003 article in Trackside Magazine using excerpts of Bud's "Story" without his knowledge or permission. https://www.flickr.com/photos/91981316@N06/16524999639/in/album-72157632565836705/
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8604/16524952369_e769e61f98_b.jpg
     
  10. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    upload_2016-9-12_1-13-12.png The Delage Torpille today part of the George Wingard collection. I saw it at Hershey about ten years ago, the whole body in engine turned. Bob
     
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  11. simplex2stroke
    Joined: Nov 2, 2010
    Posts: 10

    simplex2stroke
    Member
    from USA

    Very interesting! No lack of permission issues here: my photo is an original likely from the same negative, as Mr. Barrett's photo. Mine came from a friend who had it for many decades. Also Peter Helk in his hand, identified the cars as Simplex and Knox in the front row on the back of the photo. Since Peter died in 1988, the photo cannot be a 2003 copy. I suspected the photo was an East coast track. Thank you for the Readville lead.
     
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  12. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Glad to help - will post some more of The Readville Story when I get a chance.
     
  13. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  14. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    14322392_1694692237519973_1873389641407345649_n.jpg 14322581_707139466090816_2455053863626131177_n.jpg 14355182_707139826090780_7385815383241518930_n.jpg 1923 GP de Tours .Guyot driving the Roland-Pilain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
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  15. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I tried to buy a Ballot for my wife to drive and got very close. Always thought it would be good to have my wife say to me. "Do we race the Ballot today or the Miller?"....... I will see trying.

    I remember being introduced once as "He's with this car" The lady asked "Is he the guard?" She was told "No Madam. He is the Owner" She turned and ran away embarrassed. Shit it didn't bother me.
     
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  16. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    It was not a "World's Fair," but rather the Panama-Pacific International Exposition held in San Francisco that opened to the public on 20 February 1915. It was one of several such events held in conjunction with the opening of the Panama Canal.
     
  17. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 768

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Sad to say, but Rolland-Pilain never won a GP.
     
  18. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Thanks Don. This is the information that came with the image.Corrected the post. better now?
     
  19. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Thanks for the correction Michael. Again ,it was the information that came with the image. Corrected the post.better now? Bob
     
  20. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    14368649_10211139329385444_7623314800006654325_n.jpg Nice shot of Howe in the Delage 15-s8 #4 at the 3rd Avusrennen, 21-05-33. 3rd in 1500 class behind 2 T51As. Good view of the brake balance/compensator mechanism. Ramponi, of course, changed to hydraulic and 16" brakes for Seaman.
     
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  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    I think it would be safe to say this was the same Bugatti Ernst Friedrich drove at INDY in 1914. Bob
     
  22. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 768

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Actually no, it wasn't. Friedrich's had a prop shaft, while the Marquis Bugatti was chain-driven.
     
  23. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks! I need to check my Bugatti books all this time I've thought the INDY car was a sister car to the Type 18 Black Bess Garosse type. Bob[​IMG]
     
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  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

  25. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Rockingham?? 14364801_1803750613176543_5693068120161898343_n.jpg
     
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  26. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    From left to right; defensive, dejected and consoling.
    From Michael Ferner's notes: " 2810 1928 FD Miller Boyle - 10-12-28 L to R Team Leader Cliff Woodbury, Fred Comer and probably Dave Evans - (trademark bow tie). At Rockingham - Salem NH where Fred soon had his fatal accident on the deteriorating boards."
    and,
    "
    Comer (standing in the middle in front of Cliff's entry) may look a bit somber and Cliff - hand on hip - a bit defensive, ( sometimes teammate Dave Evans on the right offers him a consoling hand on the shoulder) he and Boyle Team Leader Cliff both driving new 1928 FD Millers had an agreement that whichever car was fastest would go to Cliff. Comer's was a bit faster and so they switched cars. (From notes by Mark Dees)
    Michael Ferner's comment:
    "There were minor differences in the cars, especially in the intercooler design."
    Cliff went on to win the shortened race in Fred's #25 while Fred fatally crashed in Cliff's #10."
     
  27. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  28. MoStirling
    Joined: Sep 2, 2016
    Posts: 1

    MoStirling

    DSCF5892.JPG I was walking through the paddock at Shelsley Walsh when I came across a strange car.
    The old guy said "There's always something new here."
    He was laughing.
    "Go and look at that rev counter." He was laughing a lot.
    001b.jpg 002.JPG 003b.jpg

    003b.jpg The car was e ntered as a Mitchell Board Racer, 1917. 4000cc capacity and has appeared at several VSCC events in the UK this year, entered by Ian Seymour-Smith. Can anyone tell me more about it?
     
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  29. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,864

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    The rear suspension on that car really interests me. Here is a similar setup. Can anyone show more detail of how it works? Is there simply a pivot at the center of the spring?
    Broadmoor Special in 1926.jpg
     
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  30. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    14441080_10211193162571240_6796154696498181708_n.jpg Chiron behind the wheel of a Scuderia Ferrari Alfa at Monaco in 1934.
     
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