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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

  2. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

  3. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 890

    Kume
    Member

    Great article - thanks for posting . I never noticed the reinforcing wires on the wooden spoked wheels -very interesting innovation but wonder how effective they were. Hard to believe these things were drifted around corners at 70 mph in 1904.
     
  4. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Looks to be a friction drive with a large output wheel--but the text mentions a ''gearbox''??

    Herb
     
  5. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    I think you will find that's a flywheel, you can see the chain drive to the gearbox, all shafts are transverse, no bevel gears.
     
  6. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    The 1904 Gordon Bennett Wolseley team, sent to the Ise of Man for the eliminating trials.
    The car in the centre was the old 1903 flat four 72hp car revamped with a new radiator and body, driven by Sidney Girling, this car had also run in the tragic Paris Madrid event the year before.
    The two other cars are the new 96hp horizontal four's 152mm x 165mm 12 litres, the same dimensions as the 1903 flat four (Lord Montagu), handled by Charles Jarrott and Campbell Muir.

    1904 gordon bennett wolsely team.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
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  7. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    The British team for the 1904 Gordon Bennett Cup, held on the Homburg circuit in Germany, Charles Jarrott, Sidney Girling (Wolseley), S. F. Edge (Napier). 1904 gordon bennett the british team jarrott girling edge.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
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  8. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    It's hard to imagine driving these cars to us in today's motoring world, unmetalled roads, narrow canvas and rubber high pressure beaded edge tires, constant speed engines controlled by a governor, two wheel brakes (side lever), these were often also interconnected with the clutch which needed to be withdrawn in order to apply the brakes as the engine ran at speed.....
    .....can anyone with experience of a car of this period comment, bearing in mind that all must have been updated with a later throttled carburettor?
     
  9. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 890

    Kume
    Member

    fantastic pics jonto. thanks for posting. I think they were horizontally opposed four cylinder motors mounted transversely.
     
  10. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    I believe the 1903 car was a flat four but the 1904 cars had in line four cylinder engines horizontally mounted. To quote again Lord Montagu, "crankshafts were not a Wolseley strong point at the time, a young apprentice was met with cold stares when asking why there was such a pile of broken ones round the back!"
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  11. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    Here is the 1903 flat four car in its first guise with wraparound tubular radiator. There does not appear to be any wire reinforcing spokes on the wheels, perhaps the wheels were found to be a weak point.

    Wolseley 1903.jpg.jpg
     
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  12. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,989

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

  13. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,989

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    C.S. Rolls

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

  15. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    1905 Circuit d'Auvergne - Charles Rolls Wolseley 96hp 1905 gordon bennett trophy, circuit d\'auvergne - charles rolls (wolseley 96hp) 8th.jpg 8th
     
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  16. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    1903 Paris Madrid. On the start line Versailles, Sydney Girling Wolseley, Jarrott was the first away 3.45am !

    1903 paris madrid sidney girling wolseley ready for the daybreak start at versailles.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2015
  17. 23Tck
    Joined: Sep 3, 2015
    Posts: 30

    23Tck

  18. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 784

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Hi 23Tck,

    Both post and avatar show a Henry Kohlert car - that can't be no accident, can it?
     
  19. 23Tck
    Joined: Sep 3, 2015
    Posts: 30

    23Tck

    He is my Grandfather. I have plenty of pictures to share from Elgin Road Races from about 1910 to Indy 1938. I found that newspaper clipping showing Duke Nalon racing with the lower cowling removed.
     
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  20. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,606

    noboD
    Member

    Welcome to the HAMB!
     
  21. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 865

    guffey

    I thought I would add this photo I think this might be the same Elgin Piston Pin car as 23Tck's avatar with #4 on it. You can kind of see where the 4 was painted over and the 23 was added elgin 27-32 (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
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  22. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 784

    Michael Ferner
    Member

  23. 23Tck
    Joined: Sep 3, 2015
    Posts: 30

    23Tck

    He went down to Indy with the Number 4 decals. I believe one of the front wheel drive cars was also number 4 so he had to scrape off the #4 and put the 23 on. Next year when he went down he didnt have the numbers on it. The pic from '28 shows that. In 1928 he was number 29. I have a race photo with that somewhere.
     
  24. 23Tck
    Joined: Sep 3, 2015
    Posts: 30

    23Tck

    Heres Norm Batten's car after the fire in the 1927 race. The car is X2610- one of two Jr8's built from the miller 91. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
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  25. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,191

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    No info on this Packard, sorry, possibly home made. Happy holidays to all! 26.jpg
     
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  26. SteveLines
    Joined: Jun 15, 2007
    Posts: 124

    SteveLines
    Member
    from England

    Does anyone have a general assembly or frame drawing for a c1922-3 Miller 183 race car please?
     
  27. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,056

    The37Kid
    Member

    Someone here on the HAMB has access to all the MILLER drawings. I have a period photo of a 183 that was owned and raced locally in the 1920's. Bob
     
  28. SteveLines
    Joined: Jun 15, 2007
    Posts: 124

    SteveLines
    Member
    from England

    That is fantastic even in unrestored condition!

    Can the engine's history be traced back (and what are the plans for it?)?
     
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,554

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Did you ask Josh Shaw?
     
  30. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,056

    The37Kid
    Member

    Did that 1/2 a 122 come out of New Hampshire? If not there is another 1/2 up there some were. Bob
     

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