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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    This may be one of the 1913 4 1/2ltr GP cars which also took records at Brooklands with a single seater body-
     
  2. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    1914 4 1-2 indy.jpg One of the 1913 GP cars was entered for Indianapolis 1914-

    "Despite its relatively smaller cubic capacity (than the Indy formula), the Sunbeam company entered one of the 1913 GP 6 cylinder cars for the 1914 Indianapolis race. It was fitted with the engine from the 12 hour record single seater. Twin Claudel Hodson carburetters were fitted and efforts were made to minimise weight. A special gearbox with only two speeds was made and a 3to 1 axle ratio was used in place of the 2.5 to 1 used in the GP. To improve engine cooling twin water outlet manifolds were provided on the cylinder head, dry sump lubrication was used with an oil tank mounted transversely behind the bolster petrol tank". (A S Heal).
     
  3. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    I've heard mention of an Indy Sunbeam in America before, be nice to know which car it was and if it's still around.
     
  4. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,822

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^^ I'll dig through my stuff and see what may turn up. Bob
     
  5. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Is there not the Sunbeam at Indianapolis Museum ex Macoco Alzaga ? Please forgive if I make a mistake, I belive it it is an ex 1913(hope I got the year right) Indianapolis car.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2015
  6. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,995

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Robert Hooper artwork... dlAttach.jpg
     
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  7. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    Any ideas what that is? I have an interest in counter rotating dual crank engines, neat stuff.
     
  8. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    Here is an interesting V Twin engine, 1910 era, New York City probably, no identification, in the NAHC, Detroit Library.
    It looks like a normal 4 stroke? except for the odd intake system.

    unidentified engine NAHC 36789.jpg unidentified engine NAHC 36788.jpg
     
  9. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,758

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    During the depression my great uncle owned a place on the North Fork of the Feather River between Quincy and Oroville CA. In '59 he, my dad,and I worked a gold claim near there and I was introduced to many of their old friends. One was a blacksmith/machinist who showed me a V8 he had built using two model A blocks, a cast connecting crankcase, and a custom crank. How long were those rods? It was laying in a pile of junk behind the shop probably a testament to it's success. I wish I had taken pictures but it wasn't as easy then.
     
  10. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,313

    ehdubya
    Member

  11. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 883

    Kume
    Member

  12. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

  13. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

     
  14. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Why does the mag run at 2X crank speed?
    ''curiouser and curiouser''

    Herb
     
  15. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,758

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    Maybe it was an early emissions thing firing on the exhaust stroke to burn unused fuel in the exhaust gasses. There were complaints about those stinky old gasoline engines even then.:confused:
     
  16. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    A V-Twin would have been a pretty small aviation engine by 1910. The builder was proud of his engine's light weight -

    unidentified engine NAHC 36787.jpg
     
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  17. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,313

    ehdubya
    Member

    A v-twin prototype for a multi cylinder V seems plausible. I note pioneer Oakland aviator Feng Ru is said to have used a Hall motor, some sources saying he had design input and others claiming he was wholly responsible for the engine design. It's not clear what powered his first plane which flew in sept 1909 but photos of the second clearly show a V8.
     
  18. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    It almost looks like there are 2 exhaust valves per cylinder. You can just make out a priming cup on each intake 'thing' at each cylinder head.
     
  19. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    14 7 15.JPG

    "The cream of British sportscars"..... (W. Boddy).
     
  20. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

    Alvis racing car No 1 IMG_0816.JPG
     
  21. jonto
    Joined: May 25, 2011
    Posts: 55

    jonto
    Member
    from UK

  22. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    This is crossposted from a thread I started on the subject, but I didn't think about this thread until afterward.

    [​IMG]

    Found a (different) picture of this car in Karl Ludvigsen’s Indy Cars 1911-1939: Great Racers from the Crucible of Speed and the above photo via the AHRF:
    Location 1 Location 2.

    Unfortunately, both resources are a little light on detail. All I know is that it was owned by wealthy playboy sportsman Joel Thorne and was driven by Russell Snowberger who crashed it during qualifying in 1936; and that it was Dodge powered. In the Ludvigsen book, it appears to have a Dodge tube axle up front, and you can see from the fairings that it probably has parallel leaf springs as well.

    Any further information on this car would be appreciated. Especially regarding the engine and drivetrain, and the brakes. This was clearly an effort with some money behind it, so hopefully it’s documented somewhere.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  23. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 780

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    One of a pair of cars built in 1936, none of them competitive. They replaced the Dodge lumps with Miller engines, and the cars qualified 1-3 at Syracuse later that year.
     
  24. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Can you tell me what the other car was? And maybe some more about the Dodge engines? I assume we're not talking stockers with iron heads and single carburetors, even if they were lumps by comparison to the Millers.
     
  25. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 780

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    The other car was identical, and did not qualify either. I don't have much on the engine, in fact only that it was a 6-cylinder stock engine, probably hot-rodded some. I don't even know its displacement.
     
  26. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 780

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    A bit of further sleuthing reveals that it had three carburettors, and a capacity of 217 cubic inches.
     
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  27. guffey
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 860

    guffey

    Elgin Piston Pin Miller photos elgin piston pin bbb (2).png
     
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  28. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691

    Bigcheese327
    Member

    Thanks. Stock Dodges were 217.8-cu.in. in those years, so they didn't mess with the bore or stroke. Sounds like a pretty basic hop up. No surprise they didn't fare super well.

    If you ever come across a photo of one of the engines, I'd be highly interested to see it.
     
  29. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 883

    Kume
    Member

    Does anyone have additional info on the 1904 Gordon Bennett Wolseley - photos, technical info, thread link?. I did a quick thread search but I cant seem to view pictures from old posts for some reason. Driven unsuccessfully by Charles Jarrott and others. I think a replica build is in order. Nice to see a good photo of his poor suffering mechanicien
    1904-gordon-bennett-wolseley-beetle.jpg pg-0363-4.jpg Wolsoleybeetle96hp1904.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2015
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  30. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,995

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

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