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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Promotional item for the Renault record car. Isabelle pic...
     

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  2. Vanstraelen
    Joined: Oct 17, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Vanstraelen
    Member

    Thanks Bob, for pointing out the tyre position, it's something I never notized before.
    You can indeed see it very well on this photo.

    [​IMG]

    I'm still looking for a good photo of the rear of this car, if someone has something on this car?

    Danny
     
  3. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Borgeson making inspection upon repatriation...
     

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  4. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    ....speaking of Millers
     

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  5. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    The story of RELLIMAH being Harry Miller is True. In 1928 or 9, Miller went Bankrupt the first time and Schofield bought it, was called Miller-Schofield. In the mean-time Harry started back up as RELLIMAH. He operated as RELLIMAH for the next 3 years until going completely Bankrupt AGAIN in 1932.. this time the Bank seized everything and it went to auction where the shop Forman and head machinist bought the company, machines, and all the 4 cyl engine manufacturing components because he believed these to be the best engine and most trouble free.. His name was Fred Offenhouser. Dick Loin, Lou Moore and a gentleman named "Skully" bought all the other exotic 8 &16 cylinder stuff.. We have NUMEROUS patterns and Drawings with the RELLIMAH name on it. In our vast collection (Thousands) of Drawings and Wood patterns the RELLIMAH manicure appears a lot!! I'll post pics of it.

    As for the rear end though... You guys are correct to question it's authenticity as it does NOT have a "Miller-esque" look to it, nor have we ever seen anything like it. I'm going to send it to a couple other Miller experts we work with and see what comes up.

    J Shaw
     
  6. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Here's a couple pics of RELLIMAH prints.. It's TOO COLD to go out in the back building and dig through patterns today in Cincinnati! :D

    ---------------------------------

    J Shaw
     

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  7. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Josh,
    Really appreciate your taking the time to respond to my friend's request for feedback.
    Will pass your comments on to Robby.

    btw. Got a note from Gordon White who basically had the same to say as yourself about the center section name stamping. he also added he has no knowledge of anything physical ever being labelled so, other than on vellum.

    Also of note, while the stamping on the rear end shows 'RELLIMAH' that in the drawing title block shows 'RELLIM A.H.'

    fwiw: 82f yesterday in Indio.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014
  8. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Thanks! Your comments passed on to Robby, like yourself he was observing engineering for high horsepower and noted the previous owner had been involved in land speed operations in the 1950s and 60s.
     
  9. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    That's the first time I've ever seen the Name STAMPED in like that... It's hard to believe Harry would have let a crooked stamping job like that fly..
    Harry had a Small Circular stamp he used on most of his components that we have as well.. It's like the R-14 stamp on the center section above the RELLIMAH.

    Very interesting piece, but to answer you question on the parts authenticity we can NOT guarantee at this time that it is a Harry A. Miller part.

    Thanks,

    J Shaw
     
  10. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Christie
     

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  11. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska


    Just curious.... what does it really mean when someone from Cincinnati says it's too cold?

    BanjeauX Bob

    Fairbanks,Alaska
     
  12. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Hey Joshua, does the archive of material include letters, correspondence, & business files?

    ZZZ
     
  13. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  14. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Well... To us it means anything below 20 degrees.

    To my Fiance' who lives in Detroit, it means she MIGHT need a light jacket...

    To YOU in Fairbanks.. Probably means Baseball Season?? :D:D
     
  15. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Not a lot.. What is in the MILLER DYNASTY book is about it.. There are however neat things we find written on the BACK of drawings! I found one where Leo Goosen was practicing his signature!! he wrote it out at least 50 times and circled and underlined certain ones he liked. Other have grocery lists, to do lists, questions to ask people and customers.. A lot have crude drawings on the back where they were trying to describe how something works or how parts fit together. Pretty neat stuff.

    J Shaw
     
  16. deuce354
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 304

    deuce354
    Member

    Anything more on this picture? Interesting
     
  17. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

  18. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    A tractor restorer I know sent it to me a couple weeks ago. The Title on the back only reads: "Man falls from surf board at 75mph on Dry Lake".

    I shared it on my Instagram and a few other places and it's making it's rounds..

    It's obviously a Front drive MILLER, but the weird thing about the picture is the Rope tied to the front axle... It's tied WRONG for a "pull start". The MILLER is being towed.. Not sure why.

    Very interesting picture indeed.

    J Shaw
     
  19. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska


    Making the rounds? I found it on facebook in a group of Europeans....
     
  20. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 768

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Los Angeles Times, Apr 20, 1924:

    Boys will be boys, I guess. Glad they introduced the word "surfing" at some point, just think of the poor Wilson Bros. singing "Aqua-planing USA"...

    Mind you, the front-drive Miller in the posted picture wasn't yet built when this article was written; it wasn't even dreamed of at the time, so the sport of "terra-planing" apparently remained popular for a few more years...


    Oh, and before you ask: the car is the former de Paolo-Miller ('2703') when owned by Harry Hartz (who is possibly the man at the wheel) in late 1929, shortly before it was cannibalized to build the first Miller-Hartz, the 1930 Indy winner.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  21. More to the point, according to Mark Dees, Miller, in February of 1929, sold his
    business, including his name, his patterns and worn-out machine tools to a newly formed Schofield of America. Schofield lasted about a year, before "bellying up". Harry never was paid in full. I think it was about '33 that Harry first went broke. I believe that Offenhauser and Goossen, still working for Miller, came up with a lighter version of the Miller Marine 151 (the patterns of which were owned by Dick Loynes). As the story goes, Miller, didn't feel that the new four-banger had a good market. But Fred and Leo persisted; and the first two Miller 200 c.i.d.'s (or maybe 220's?) were sold to Bill White and Sparks and Weirick. Parenthetically, Art Sparks said he was so disappointed with the new Miller engine, that he set out to make his own. Sparks claimed that he had problems with the crankcasw, block and geardrive; so he designed and made his own patterns. I think he first ran his own engine (which all thought was a Miller) in the number 33 car, in the 1935 Indy 500. 1935 was the first year that an Offenhauser engined car ran at Indy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  22. I think I should point out that the first version of the 4 cylinder Miller race engine(the lightened version of the Miller Marine), I believe was constructed after Schofield of America went bankrupt.

    When the assets of Schofield were sold, Harlan Fengler and Crane Gartz bought the patterns for an Overhead Valve cylinder head and a Dual Overhead Cam head. Schofield had marketed them under the name of "Miller Hi-Speed". The patterns to these cylinder heads were designed by Leo Goossen, before Miller sold out to Schofield. They were designed to fit a Ford Model A block (and later a Model B). Fengler and Gartz started making the heads, calling the company, a contraction of Gartz's name, CRAGAR.

    Art Sparks said that he tried the heads (I don't know if he meant both); and labeled them "junk".
     
  23. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    This monster was mentioned on PreWarCar today. Here's a link to a video which proves beyond doubt that the first picture was taken in Paris!

    https://picasaweb.google.com/Voisin...KDI0_2hgJDnzAE&feat=email#5970611083092424498
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,238

    The37Kid
    Member

    Wonder if there are any speed records for the above vehicle? Personally I thing a stock Bugatti would out run it. Bob
     
  25. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Apparently it was only doing about 90km/h when it caught fire on its first - and only - test run. That was only one-fifth of what he claimed it would be able to do.
     
  26. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member


    Daaaang! Who knows where it originated. Cool how connected the GEAR HEAD world is these days.
     
  27. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Yep! I was wondering!! I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for clarifying. Hope to see ya soon Michael.
     
  28. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Excellent report! Thank you. I gave the "Cliff notes" version for sure.

    Thanks.

    J Shaw
     
  29. Josh,

    There has been mention on the latest banger thread that Zakira's may reproduce Riley sidedraft carbs...

    Any truth to that??? And if we need to be sworn to secrecy, I promise, we won't tell a soul :D
     
  30. See few recent references to Mr. Art Sparks, this is my recent 17 dollar Junk fair find. Thumbed through it quickly but didn't find the detail note until I got home.
     

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