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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member


    As always you are CORRECT!! Yes, after further research I am convinced it was earlier as well.

    WOW!!!! That 11 page report was AMAZING!! What a fun read. Even small detail in THAT report helped us. No Photos up till that point had established or proved that there was any kind of Access Side Plates to the main bearings on the case such as a n Offy.. In that report the mention the side covers! Little details like that are golden to us at this point, Thank you!!!

    Here's the ONLY detailed picture of the Engine known to us at this point.
    Courtesy of James Long.

    (It's also the only picture showing the Throttle linkage, and brake pedal placement.. There was NO fire wall in the Packard Indy car, and you can see the Drivers FOOT on the small brake pad in this picture. Also, you can scarcely make out the top and bottom row of botls for the Crank Case side cover.)
     

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  2. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    That looks like a MERCER to me. Bob Merry Christmas everyone. Bob

    [​IMG]
     
  3. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    I would think there had to be a firewall of some type, look at a photo of a mid 1920's Bugatti GP car, maybe the Packard has something like that without the side plates near your feet. Bob :)


     
  4. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Merry Christmas! And happy birthday to Mr. Chevrolet & Mr. Duntov.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,928

    noboD
    Member

    Amen.
     
  6. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member


    We agree, but so far have not seen anything.. In this rear picture you can see the back of the Mag and gear tower. However, an "upper Firewall" could still be present. (Plus, this is obviously a PRE-RACE picture and a firewall could have been added later..)

    This car also had open sides to the Bell housing. In my engine picture above you can see the Clutch plates just beyond his foot.

    J Shaw
     

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  7. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,781

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Have we seen this particular view of this Christie?
     

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  8. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,501

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    This little cutie must have been designed by a descendant of the Knight's Templar, eh? LOL. Gary
     
  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Yes, It was in the Automobile Quarterly feature years ago. I've always wanted to know how much those cast bronze front wheels weighed. The total scrap weight was mentioney a while back when Barney Oldfield was throught with the car. Bob
     
  10. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    The Christie patented wheel is shown below. The spokes were hollow, and the center section was tapered and keyed to take the drive load. Later Christie changed the spokes to thin wall steel tubes.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    In 1912 M.Birkigt also built a supercharged engine for Hispano Suiza to compete in the 1912 French GP. Unfortunately he couldn't keep the bottom end together, and withdrew entry from the race. He took a patent on his supercharger in France. He used a separate 2 cylinder compressor to supercharge the mixture. I was unaware of this until reading 'La Hispano-Suiza' just recently. Good book. Text in English.
     
  12. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Happy and safe New Year to all.

    [​IMG]
     

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  13. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    For those who still believe in the Russ Catlin & Bob Russo "Tommy Milton Was Robbed By The AAA Contest Board Because Kennerdell Never Published The Points That Season" Conspiracy (and some of you still do, it seems), you might want to note the points....
     
  14. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Nice magnums Kurtis! Happy New Year, and thanks for all the info you have contributed to this thread.

    Recently I sifted through the finding aid for the Edsel B. Ford office papers held at the Henry Ford. The finding aid was 150+ pages, lists the contents of over 300 boxes of files, and has brief descriptions of letters EBF received. Included in this treasure of documents were a number of letters from noted racers including Mr. Oldfield. Have you mined this material yet?

    My sentiments exactly!
     
  15. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Something to consider:

    1905
    AAA National Motor Car Champion = Barney Oldfield

    1909
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Bert Dingley
    Means (1) = Bert Dingley
    Means (2) = George Robertson
    Catlin = George Robertson

    1910
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Ralph Mulford
    Means = Ray Harroun
    Catlin = Ray Harroun

    1911
    The Automobile = Ralph De Palma
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Harvey Herrick
    Means = Ralph Mulford
    Catlin = Ralph Mulford

    1912
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Ralph De Palma
    Los Angeles Times = Teddy Tetzlaff
    New York Times = Bob Burman
    Chicago Daily News = Ralph De Palma
    Means = Ralph De Palma
    Catlin = Ralph De Palma

    1913
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Earl Cooper
    The Horseless Age = Earl Cooper
    Means = Earl Cooper
    Catlin = Earl Cooper

    1914
    The Horseless Age/ Road Racing = Ralph De Palma
    The Horseless Age/ Speedways = Rene Thomas
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Ralph De Palma
    MoToR/ Road Racing = Ralph De Palma
    Means = Ralph De Palma
    Catlin = Ralph De Palma

    1915
    The Horseless Age/ Road Racing = Earl Cooper
    The Horseless Age/ Speedways = Eddie Rickenbacher
    The Horseless Age/ Overall = Earl Cooper
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Earl Cooper
    Motor Age/ Speedways = Gil Anderson
    Motor Age/ Tracks = Eddie Rickenbacher
    MoToR/ Road Racing = Earl Cooper
    MoToR/ Speedways = Dario Resta
    Means = Earl Cooper
    Catlin = Earl Cooper

    1916
    AAA National Champion = Dario Resta

    1917
    Motor Age = Earl Cooper
    Means = Earl Cooper
    Catlin = Earl Cooper

    1918
    Means = Ralph Mulford

    1919
    Motor Age/ Road Racing = Tommy Milton
    Motor Age/ Speedways = Eddie Hearne
    Motor Age/ Overall = Eddie Hearne
    Means = Howdy Wilcox

    1920
    AAA National Champion = Gaston Chevrolet
    Means = Tommy Milton
    Catlin = Tommy Milton
    Russo = Tommy Milton
     
  16. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,501

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Jeez Louise, these are SO cool. Gary
     
  17. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,009

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    Anything would be cool in all that snow. :p

    (Though I do like those cars. :D )
     
  18. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,781

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Carol Shelby
     

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  19. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    RELLIMAH
    A friend (not a computer user) asked me to post this for him seeking any feedback.
    He recently purchased this rear end center section from a friend of a friend in AZ who had only to say that Jiggler Joe Gemsa gave it to him and it sat in the back of his garage till present.
    Link to 20 photos:
    http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/carl44s/library/?sort=6&page=2
    There are 9 teeth on the pinon and 23 on the ring. 2.56 ratio?
    [​IMG]

    Any observations would be appreciated.

    My readings indicate that the RELLIMAH name was used very briefly and for legal precautions in 1930 when Miller re-opened his busines (first ever so briefly on Venice Blvd and then more permanently in a former laundry on Grammercy Place:
    M.Dees Miller Dynasty p320
    "The only occasion of consequence for use of the RELLIMAH name was on the title blocks of vellum sheets imprinted when Schofield was still in business. Prints of drawings made on these vellums are still circulating and give unwarranted substance to the RELLIMAH fable."
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  20. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    I don't know much about Miller equipment, but take it that RELLIMAH spelled backwards is H.A. Miller, right?
     
  21. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Yes.
    My friend bought this with the idea of donating it to The Hot Rod Museum in Pomona since they have little concerning Harry Miller in their inventory but want's to be sure it is authentic before approaching them.
     
  22. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,501

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Someone should contact Josh Shaw on the vintage sprint car thread about it. Strange story, but very cool ifn true. Gary
     
  23. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Joe Gemsa had a lot of MILLER stuff over the years, so I'd say it was a real deal item. More photos of the rear would be nice to see. Bob
     
  24. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Hi Bob,
    I provided a link to 20 photos in my original post.
    Did it work?
    Here it is again:
    http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/c...&page=2&_suid=1389464482171034489568920702595

    I have not been able to find any references to Miller actually stamping this very short lived (6 months?) name on anything other than some vellum that Mark Dees mentions.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,106

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    An observation...

    The method of securing the ring gear to the spool utilizing dog teeth like a dental drive Dayton wheel in addition to the (only) 5 mounting bolts in shear, suggests to me a very high quality and perhaps high horsepower application.

    Perhaps this is not uncommon back in that day on the higher end cars. I'm more familiar with what the midgets were running
     
  26. Vanstraelen
    Joined: Oct 17, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Vanstraelen
    Member

    Hi,

    This is the first time I write something on this historical thread, but I've been following it for a few years now.
    It's always an inspiration to come and look on this forum for historical information.
    My main interest, is to put these pre war beauties into scale 1/32 slot car models.
    All my models are unique scratch build and I put great value into true scale.

    Here are a few examples.
    Two cars I build the 1905 speed record Darracq and the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup winning Darracq
    [​IMG]
    The speed record 350Hp sunbeam.
    [​IMG]

    Sometimes the research for a model can take me more than two years before I even can think about starting a build, sometimes I just have to forget it, due to, too little available information.
    The biggest missing informations are always the dimensions and/or blueprints.

    Again I'm searching for information.
    This time the 1907 winning "Circuit des Ardennes", Minerva
    This particular car was part of the Minerva team.
    [​IMG]

    Minerva was a Belgian brand and very famous for it's luxurious models, even Henry Ford had one.

    I've already found a lot of Photos on this particular 1907 car.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I even found a photo where it crashed at the Brooklands(UK) track
    [​IMG]

    I'm still looking for photos of the rear of this car and the true dimensions.
    So if anybody has information , that is always welcome?
    The more I have, the more accurate this model will be.

    Cheers,
    Danny
     
  27. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,928

    noboD
    Member

    Welcome Danny, your models show great detail and talent.
     
  28. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    You all probably know this Miller picture well. Please forgive the poor quality.
    They come from Coche a la Vista mag May 1961. These are the 91 Miller cars, still in the Bugatti works. Mr. Bugatti ("Copy cat, stinky rat")bought from Duray to copy and were later rescued by Borgeson in 1954 and restored circa 1961. The mag also says the chassis is Packard, is that so?
     

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  29. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Welcome to the HAMB Danny, great photo collection and finished models. I'm guessing the tires are DUNLOP with that V traction pattern.I've always wondered what the correct position was, they look better to me with the V right side up as viewed from the front. Guess it might not matter since this car had it both ways. Bob

    [​IMG]
     
  30. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Packard Cable, the spark plug wire co was a sponsor, that is the only connection to MILLER. If Bugatti did copy anything it was the cup type cam followers that he used in his twin cam straight eights. Bob
     

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