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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Harry Hartz...1926 AAA National Champion seated at the head table front and center with his wife...beyond Hartz, Hill, Lockhart, Miller I'm having a hard time as well...the guy seated to the right of Lockhart kind of looks like Bob McDonough...or maybe even Pietro Bordino, an occasional AAA racer from Italy-while he was competitive it makes no sense that he would be seated at the head table...the mystery goes on.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  2. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    I think we all are doing some pretty darn good face and image guessing all around. Just don't write it in cement because of the quality of the photo.:cool:

    Could that be 'Big Ed' Wintergust "The Richfield Man on The Scene" front and center with the bushy eyebrows, dark suit and vest?

    The shin dig was sponsored by Richfield, hosted by the all male Optimist Club of L.A. and the invitees seem to have a lot of Richfield associations.
    It would appear that the members of the Optimist Club are the ones with the name badges on their jackets.
    Speaking of Richfield connections; Benny Hill, as has been pointed out sitting on Harry Miller's right -between Harry and Harry's B-in-Law Dave Lewis, here's a Richfield publicity photo of him earlier in the year:
    http://s1011.photobucket.com/user/c...e 1923-1926/HillBennyHill.jpg.html?sort=6&o=7

     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  3. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thank you David, Is the Cummins INDY car still around? Bob
     
  4. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks! I've often wondered if anyone has taken the time to make a list of all the INDY cars that still exist? I got to sit in the 1911 Spencer Wishart Mercedes, and the 1952 winner. The best time was riding shotgun in the 1916 runner up walking beam Duesenberg, that was a lifetime highlight. Bob
     
  5. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Bob,
    Not an overabundance of literature available on the subject.
    Joe Freeman of Racemaker Press - http://www.racemaker.com/
    and Jim O'Keefe are close to finishing a newly revised racing history of his 1915 Duesy that you mention above. David has some great info on the car at (one of the articles at this link) http://theoldmotor.com/?s=1915+Duesenberg I have collected some of the available data here and at the following 10 photos:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/91981316@N06/10671982566/in/set-72157632866436128

    Carl
     
  6. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 240

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Not sure if this list of 500 winners is accurate, but it is fun to read.

    http://www.geocities.com/johnsonindy500/indy500/museum.html

    A comprehensive list of all machines that competed during the "Golden Era" would be a treasure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  7. Just thought you all would appreciate the Studebaker Indy car, Chalmers endurance race car and a Stutz Bearcat. Saw these all in one fellows collection. Sorry for my crummy phone pics, but it was the best I could muster.

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,781

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Varzi, Alfa P3,1934
     

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  9. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Barney Oldfield and Heavyweight Champ Jack Johnson match race.

    What would have happened if Oldfield's car suddenly broke and Johnson won??

     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,752

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I mostly wonder what they were using for a camera car platform? THAT'S the one I want to drive.
     
  11. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    Is Brad Skinner still around?

    Thanks,

    J Shaw
     
  12. Jimbo17
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 3,559

    Jimbo17
    Member

    The photo's of the garage are really interesting look back in history at some beautiful looking racers that in their time were state of the art cars.

    Not much room to move around in the garage that's for sure.

    I wonder what the value of all the cars are in the garage?

    Jimbo
     
  13. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,781

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Team racers...
     

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  14. someone had a lot of fun with a few snips of celluloid.

    http://podbay.fm/show/283605519/e/1328555751

    There is a "stuff you missed in history class" pod cast on Jack Johnson, it touches on this event. The race was a response to Jack Johnson beating James Jefferies (Jefferies was a close friend of Barney) for the World heavy Weight Championship. AAA would not grant Jack Johnson a license to race, so one of his employees applied and got it for him, and Barney got banned "again" from the AAA board for participating. Don't recall reading that the race was so close though.

     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2013
  15. Are the front dumb irons castings?

     
  16. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I studied the photo for a long time and thing it is the frame rail with some thing inserted in it?
     
  17. looking at the cross member, which to me would be "normal" thickness, made me wonder of the front dumb irons were cast. Cast or forged dumb irons were a common item, but I would have guessed that they were out of style by '08. But, I think you are right in that they have probably been "armored".
     
  18. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I have other pictures of the car that might give us a better idea of how it was constructed.....
     
  19. Joshua Shaw
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    Joshua Shaw
    Member

    The Mocked up Body and pieces of what's left of the Brisko SIX showed up today. We have had ALL that's left of the 3 engines for months now, and will start work on the entire car now. It will be put back into running condition but NOT RESTORED.

    Anyone care to mention the amazing Record this car holds at Indy??

    J Shaw
     

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  20. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,106

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Frank Brisko, one of my favorite subjects.

    Here's another Brisko engine that was also somewhat of an Offy derivation, a midget that had 5 main bearings and hemispherical combustion chambers with hydraulically operated valves, no camshafts.

    This engine was running pre-war in one of Frank's midgets. Emil Andres drove it a bit and I had conversations with him about it during the time that I owned a crankcase, main bearing webs, monobloc, and side cover.

    In his later post war years he obtained a patent on the hydraulic valve actuation and units and visitors to his shop in northern Wisconsin, were treated to a running demonstration of the engine in this test stand.

    The picture show the hydraulic pump removed and with the valve actuators was fitted to an S-10 Chev engine for further development which was cut short by his death.
     

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  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Joshua, Great looking car! I'm always interested in any INDY car that turns up that I didn't know of before. What does it have for a chassis now since the original MILLER frontdrive is restored? Always interesting to follow the parts that got moved around over the years. Bob [​IMG]
     
  22. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,502

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    ^^^ WOW that is just so cool. Looking forward to seeing tons of pix of what's hidden under that cool skin, too, in the coming months. Gary.
     
  23. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    First, there were to be three heats (if necessary) to the match race between Johnson and Oldfield, the winner being whoever won two of the heats. Neither was even close, Oldfield finishing well ahead of Johnson in each heat, Johnson graciously admitting that he had been beaten.

    As for the film, it was made as part of the publicity for the match event, and, to the best of my knowledge, definitely not taken during the event.

    The event was held on the Jockey Club's race track at Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn, most of the site being used later for the construction of the planked board speedway in 1915 -- the original plan being for a concrete speedway rather than a board one.
     
  24. thank you for the fill in information, Don.

     
  25. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 1,990

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    What was the requirement for obtaining a competition license back then. From what I have read, it was an associate of Johnson who simply walked in to a AAA office one day and walked out with a license to race. Was it that simple?
     
  26. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,007

    The37Kid
    Member

    Well, in 1925 you only needed $100.00 to enter a car, and if you qualified it was returned to you. Got an original letter from INDY to prove it. Bob :D
     
  27. indyrjc
    Joined: Nov 8, 2008
    Posts: 850

    indyrjc
    Member
    from Indiana

    That was still going on all through the Hulman years and dated back to the early days of the track as you state. I'm not sure of the year that the practice ended. I believe the entry fee for the 500 was up to $1000 by the late 1970s. However, if you completed a Qualification Attempt the entry fee was returned as you said; even if you were later bumped out of the field. In addition, you got the use of your assigned garage at the Speedway for the entire year. There were a few teams still taking advantage of this until the late 1980s. Most teams worked out of the Speedway Garage Area during the racing season with many being there year round.
     
  28. Speedwrench
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,010

    Speedwrench
    Member

    Not to mention that you got more than your entry fee back in freebies such as fasteners, fuel, lubricants, and the list goes on.
     
  29. ttpete
    Joined: Mar 21, 2013
    Posts: 177

    ttpete
    Member
    from SE MI

    A friend who crewed for Leader Card said that they always paid for an extra entry they never used just to get the extra garage for storage and for the pit passes that came with it.
     
  30. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    At the time, 1912, it was, basically, that simple. Keep in mind that registration for drivers, mechanicians, car owners, and tracks did not begin until the 1910 season. The whole Oldfield-Johnson event was a bit of a fiasco in many ways for most of those involved.

    To answer your original question: (1) Johnson would have won at least that heat of the match event; (2) Johnson winning the match race would have probably resulted in even more Jim Crow racism heading his way.
     

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