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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    David, I have noted that elsewhere in cyberspace that there are those from a small island nation off the coast of France and the Low Countries, one that was for a long, long time a backwater in the realm of automobile racing, who are complaining (whining might be more accurate) about the statement I have highlighted. While there might be a bit of hyperbole involved in that statement, the essence of the notion being offered is probably closer to reality than they realize -- or can accept.

    It is one of those statements that if it is not really quite true, it should be.

    My recent research into US racing through the 1920 season (which is still on-going and on-going and on-going, pretty much an Engergizer-Bunny-as-researcher-&-historian sort of effort it seems) has really made it clear how the locus of US racing shifted from the East Coast to the West Coast during that time. Even though fully aware of how much racing took place on the Pacific Coast, and California in particular, it is still quite interesting to observe the extent to which automobile racing took hold there during that era. It is also interesting to note how little of that racing appears as part of the historical record.

    I did watch the clip and it was intersting to see Harold in action on the Pasadena-Altadena hill climb, an event pretty much forgotten by most. It was a surprise to realize that many years ago on a visit to the LA area that I had actually been on the course and never realized it.
     
  2. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    I only make it three so far - and one of those is actually from a long thin country north of Germany which has a blue and yellow flag and was even more of a racing backwater than the small island nation off the coast of France and the Low Countries. ;) Of the other two, neither has any real understanding of pre-war racing in Europe, let alone across the Big Pond! I suspect neither would be able to name the winner of the 1921 Grand Prix de l'ACF or the American drivers who raced at Tripoli in 1934.

    I enjoyed it immensely - looking forward to the rest! :D
     
  3. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    David, It was interesting to notice just how many of the photographs that were used in the clip that I was familiar with and probably had somewhere in my files. In all honesty, I was not prepared to like it, such things in the past never "doing much" for me. In this case, however, I found that there something to it and well worth watching.
     
  4. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Glad you liked it.....

    I was just thinking of those two races also and one more, The 1958 running of Race of Two Worlds. But they would probably call them all flukes.

    And what about the race here in the U.S. on the Lime Rock Park road course were all the sports cars were defeated by Rodger Ward in a genuine USA made midget w/an Offy in it??
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  5. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    I hope I am not boring anyone with the draft cards I've posted, but I think they are kind of neat. Here is a copy of Jimmy Murphy's registration from 1917. It took me a while to locate it. You'd be surprised how many James Murphys registered during WW1.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  6. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

    Really appreciate your's and others contributions here.
     
  7. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    These documents are priceless, thank you Zig Zagz
     
  8. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,935

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Just wondering... The flag in one of these images very much resembles the International Code flag for "N" which has much larger squares than the flags we use today. But the N flag has blue and white squares. So, I was wondering if some of the race promoters in the day (like the Vanderbuilts who probably dabbeled in contests of all kinds - horses, boats, air racing, etc.) might have used some nautical flags in these early races as they were very familiar to them. And, if so, that there was possibly a connection between the finish line designation and some word that started with the letter N (in English or a foreign term) that would have inspired the use of the N flag over any others. Along the same line, I wonder if these first checkered flags were actually blue and white or if they were the black and white we are accustomed to today?

    I doubt it, but just thought I'd ask. Gary
     
  9. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    McPherson College students say thanks for your help with the recent fundraiser

    [​IMG]


    The students and staff at McPherson College and The Old Motor would like to thank all of you
    that contributed to our recent Tools & Equipment Fundraiser. Over $2500 was donated which
    the Restoration Program is going to put into their Red Wrench Club fund towards a power
    hammer and other things they need. You can learn more here about the McPherson College
    Restoration Program
    and contribute anytime to the non-profit school.

    And a big thanks to Ryan for his and the H.A.M.B.'s help
     
  10. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Here's a couple of Indy 500 winners who were also LSR holders, De Palma & Keech:
     

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  11. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Notice that it is spelled "De Palma" and NOT "DePalma."
     
  12. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Gary

    The "N" flag dates back to when NOTHING was sacred....... :)
     
  13. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
    Member

    Sorry, I meant to respond to this earlier, but got sidetracked.

    The flags used at the Glidden Tour checkpoints were black & white, as was the flag used at the Vanderbilt Cup, which was the first use for a race, but not an automotive contest.
     
  14. Cris
    Joined: Jan 3, 2005
    Posts: 805

    Cris
    Member
    from Vermont

    Hi,
    This is Paul Ivanos with the actress Claudette Colbert. The car is 4752. I believe the shot was taken by the famous photographer Edward Weston.

    Cris

     
  15. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,935

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    Thanx Don, nice to get that nailed down. Gary
     
  16. bugatti7
    Joined: Jan 7, 2013
    Posts: 46

    bugatti7
    Member
    from Germany

    Great - thank you very much

    Uwe
     
  17. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    At the recent Retromobile in Paris, France, for the very first time there were four famous motor racing machines built by Benz on display together:
    a 1908 Grand Prix racing car, the record-breaking 1909 200 hp “Lightning Benz”, and a pair of 1910 “Prince Henry” sports tourers. The two sports
    tourers were shown by the Louwman Museum and the Mercedes-Benz Classic Museum on adjacent stands.

    We have a post filled with many more photos including period photos and information along with coverage of the "Lighting Benz" and the 1908
    Grand Prix racing car that were also on display.

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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  18. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,435

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Now that is some very nice coachwork. Are those "doors" even functional? The fit-n-finish is amazing.
     
  19. Love the headlight covers!
     
  20. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    This is Episode 2 of “WHERE THEY RACED: Speed Demons in the City of Angeles”

    In this episode you can see by CLICKING HERE will learn all about and see footage of “The Holy Grail” one of the best surviving pre WWI Peugeot racing cars, a bit about Harry Miller and his role in caring for many of them. If you missed the first one you can see, Where They Raced – Episode I : The Early Years here. The photos below will show you just some of what you will see in the film.


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    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
  21. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    That 1914 Peugeot is a gem. Terrific video, thanks for posting.

    ZZZ
     
  22. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Here's a little Miller memorabilia:
     

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  23. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Alfa Romeo 2300. 1950 Rosario, Santa Fé, Argentina. Roberto "Bitito" Mieres. 1st place.
     

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  24. UK RUSS 1960 OLDS
    Joined: Jul 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,244

    UK RUSS 1960 OLDS
    Member

    Hi Guys,

    I have only got a short way through this thread so far, but i am loving all this old history.

    Many years ago the BBC did a programme called Horizon which covered all manner of topics over the years and one topic was the Supercharged Grand Prix cars of the 1920's and 1930's, from time to time it would appear on YouTube only to be removed by the BBC because of copyright.

    Anyhow i have found it again and it has been on YouTube a while, not sure why it hasn't been removed yet maybe because of where it is being hosted from or because of the misspelling in the title.

    Apologies if this has already been posted, and if not sit back and enjoy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCP_GJ8JBOE

    Cheers.

    Russ.
     
  25. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 10,935

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    ^ Russ, that was a very enjoyable film, thanx for the link. Gary
     
  26. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 741

    carl s
    Member
    from Indio, CA

  27. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 783

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    I thought it was very poor. Though there was quite a bit of period footage that I'd never seen before, the faux sound effects were a serious detraction. And the narration, above all, left a LOT to be desired! Apart from many misidentifications and simply wrong info, it also perpetuated a lot of myths, mostly of the Bugatti type. Bugatti is perhaps the only marque about which more nonsense is written or told than even Ferrari! Oh, yes, Fiat won a Grand Prix or two, but only because Bugatti dropped out... :rolleyes: What a load of BS.

    In truth, Bugattis alway ran last in Grands Prix and only began winning when EVERYBODY else chose not to compete - that's true, Bugatti's first win came in a race of only three starters, all of them Bugs! And the cars were always technically obsolescent, until Bugatti began copying other designs. But today, Bugatti fanatics will tell you that Bugatti was the most successful marque of all time... :mad:
     
  28. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    Today we have the third part in the very popular feature series, WHERE THEY RACED, which you can see by CLICKING HERE, it is a documentary series that reunites the ghost tracks of Los Angeles with the cars that ran them and gets the families of the drivers, historians and experts to tell the tales that give this history a victory lap by preserving these fading memories.

    Episode 3 begins at the start/finish line of the Santa Monica Road Races which ran from 1909 – 1919. Then we take a detour with special guests Don Pullen (Eddie’s son) and Huell Howser at the Corona track. And finally we finish the episode back in Santa Monica on the long Wilshire Blvd. straightaway – but we don’t get back to the start/finish… that will be in part 2 next week.

    Below are previews of what you will see in this episode.


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  29. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Mr. Ferner, the attached text comes from Sir Malcom Campbell's Book of Famous Motorists, USA edition Floyd Clymer. What Macoco Alzaga had to say after the 1923 Indianapolis:"When the boxes arrived with our Bugattis and we opened them there on the oval, we looked at each other with Riganti, we were so ashamed that we wanted to run away. The cars were badly finished with hammer dents, terrible paint job. the cars looked disgraceful. Ettore Bugatti was hipocrite, a bad person. In the 1923 trial we broke 6 Bugatti engines,we would be out on the straight and Booom the engine would blow. I was lucky when the cod rods broke away they did via the bottom, because if they had otherwise, perhaps I might have lost a leg".

    I have done my best in the transalation, have not added anything to make this worse.Enjoy.
     

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  30. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    Le Patron always talked a good car. Building one was an entirely different matter, and to me his "genius" lies purely in marketing and being fortunate enough in being the first to realise that there was a big market for customer cars that could be used for racing.

    In short, he was the classic description of a great salesman: the right man, with the right product, in the right place, at the right time and at the right price.

    The T57 shows that if only Jean Bugatti had been given his head earlier - and not died in that pointless testing accident - things could have been very, very different.
     

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