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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,288

    noboD
    Member

    Was thinking along the same lines, '37.
     
  2. The logic, when carried to an extreme is unargueable. Yet, when it comes to the common man, it is not for the out and out production of a vehicle, but for the realistic attainment for the restoration or recreation of parts as needed.

    T-Heads example of the intake is the perfect place where 3D printing would not only save him time and it would provide no diservice to his clients. We are all fans history here, but there are times where technology has it's advantage.

    There is a gentleman I know trying to build a Stevens Duryea carburetor, he most of the parts, but he doesnt have all the parts. To create them all from traditional methods would easily cost 20,000 dollars by the time the patterns were cut, the castings made and machined and so on. That is not cost effective by any means, and not only is not cost effective, the skills required to achieve the desired outcome are only in the hands of the few. Were it possible to apply technology such as that mentioned here, to his problem, he might have a viable way to achieve his end goal at a significantly reduced cost.

    Above all, there comes the need for the inscrutable documentation of the legitament, lest it be diluted by the uncouth.

    Failing that, I am sure that T-head has a needle gun to add the appropriate aging to that manifold. ;):D
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2012
  3. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,288

    noboD
    Member

    Doug, for the most part most people wouldn't know or care whether it's real or new. I think what David does is incredible, and I'm jealous of his talent and think I've told him that several times. His walking beam engine is a work of art. But to build a whole car is just wrong. I have a few parts I need when you get that 3D gismo. the other Doug
     
  4. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,327

    The37Kid
    Member

    ^^^^^ This topic gets to the top every now and then. I do think it is a great service when an original engine has a clone built around it, and that fact is clearly stated. An early MILLER and 1905 LSR Darracq come to mind. Bob
     
  5. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Today a replica, reproduction or falsified car is maybe identifiable, in the future it wont be, they will be saddly mixed, and some is going to be very very cross when he discovers he has a fake. It's all about the filthy money in the end.
     
  6. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Back in the late 1960's my uncle got his hands on a Duesenberg Model J, chassis #315. He found the car in San Jose, and it had been sitting on blocks for years. It was originally built in 1932 with a Rollston body featuring Edwardian coachwork.

    [​IMG]

    Around 1935 it was re-bodied by the Chicago Duesenberg dealership as a Dietrich Coupe. This is how my uncle found the car back in 1968.

    [​IMG]

    The car was in need of a lot of work, and at the time he was looking at a $25K project (big money back then). He passed on the project, and flipped the car for a tidy profit.

    Here is J315 as it sits today:

    [​IMG]

    In my opinion the spirit of the original car has been lost. Not to say that J315 isn't pretty, but ....
     
  7. Actually, today is the same as tomorrow. A cleverly executed piece of work may slip through unnoticed anytime.
     
  8. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,327

    The37Kid
    Member

    Yes, and it only matters to those that like that era car. Most 1909 Model T Fords and most Stanley Steamers are suspect, but I wouldn't know if the decals on a Yanco were on a real car or not. Bob
     
  9. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Very true. Forgeries exist in all different mediums. A few years ago there was a fellow who made exceptionally high quality copies of the famous 1907 St. Gaudens $20.00 double eagle gold coin. These bogus coins fooled dealers all around the country, and the perpetrator was never caught. The skills required to produce those fake coins was simply amazing.
     
  10. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    We have always wondered about this car, who built, who owned it, where was it raced? The photo has enough clues so that maybe the location can possibly be pieced together or hopefully one of our readers may know more about this “Ingenuity Special”.

    It is modeled on a front-drive Miller and is based on Model T components. It features a Model T engine and transmission turned around and hooked up to the center section of a T differential. Like the Miller, it is equipped with a tubular front axle possibly from an early Franklin or Packard set on its side. Two types of U-joints are used for the half-shafts and the hubs and spindles are unknown components.

    It appears to be equipped with an OHV racing head and based on the locations of the header and the down-draft Winfield carburetor, it may have been a Rajo. It is also on a set of professional grade racing wire wheels and has rear wheel brakes on a simple tube axle. Both ends of the car are sprung on quarter-elliptic springs.

    The LaSalle just behind it is a 1930-1931, which dates the photo to at least that late. Note the Model T to the left with the “Auto Races” sign on the windshield along with what appear to be a several Model T based racers in the background. Let us know what you may know.

    There is another photo of it after a minor crash with what maybe a Model A tow truck on The Old Motor.
     
  11. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    ..........I just backed up and looked at what you gents have been talking about.

    Hey sign me up when you get one.....Luckily these patterns were already made as many Simplex, Mercer and Stutz components have been in the past.

    Do they have a wax that will stand up to the torture from foundry workers when they are making the molds and cores? Can it resize patterns larger as they need to be for shrinkage ?? I know that they can make a simple pattern but what about the complex one like for a block or head with a lot of cores????

    I am going to stay out of the replica car argument, but I won't let them in the shop, nor will I sell one for anyone when they ask me to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  12. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,931

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Which reminds me of this little home built jewel...
     

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  13. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    The license plate in the photo may yield some helpful information. I don't know much about vintage plates, but if you can pin-point the state it was issued in, it may help.

    The sailor in the background is also an interesting clue. The photo may have been taken near a port city.
     
  14. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,931

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    From Traditional Open Wheeled Circle Track Front Engined Race Cars,FB.
     

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  15. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,288

    noboD
    Member

    Any more pics of this Bob?
     
  16. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,931

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Doug,maybe.I stole them from here.Not much info on it.It is Crosley powered.When this pic was taken it wasn't finished.As the evidence shows,the workmanship is exceptional.

    BanjeauX Bob
     
  17. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,931

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    The Other Doug...ask and ye shall receive!Kurtis was the poster that I got the little car images from.The black car is the Buick Miller that sleeps at the Mullin Museum ( http://www.mullinautomotivemuseum.com ).
     

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  18. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,288

    noboD
    Member

    That is the car I thought. Unless I'm crazy? it was at Bonneville this year. Guy said his grandfather started building it, and he finished it. I'm sure it's the same.
     
  19. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,931

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    The Other Doug... where are the pictures YOU took of this car?What did they do for the drive axles?

    BanjeauX Bob
     
  20. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 7,288

    noboD
    Member

    Shoot Me! I didn't take any. B-ville is overwelming, if you haven't been there. Maybe one of the smarter guys that was there took some.
     
  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,327

    The37Kid
    Member

    Its here on the HAMB somewere, I remember seeing the photo on the salt. Bob :rolleyes:
     
  22. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    That was exactly what we were hoping for as a reader on The Old Motor has ID'ed the plate as Minnesota on all places if he is correct.
     
  23. Offset
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 1,696

    Offset
    Member
    from Canada

    Perhaps the sponsor signs on the wooden rails outlining the track may give some clue, one of them appears to say "cottage cheese" but you cannot read what is in front of it because of the tow truck. The other looks like a fuel oil supplier but is partially blocked by the fellow with the hat.

    I wonder if the left front tire may have been the cause of the wreck, it appears to be badly damaged.

    Great shots thanks for sharing.
     
  24. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,170

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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    from FRENCHTOWN

    Maybe a subsequent rollover??
     
  25. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,327

    The37Kid
    Member

    I'd really like to understand how that front hub/axle attechment worked on the FWD T. The transmission controlls are another, what a great pair of photos. Thank you David! Bob
     
  26. At this moment (from cursory research), 3D printing is currently being done for lost wax foundry work. They are also printing in metals such as steel, aluminum, titanium and so on.

    Best to look here:

    http://3dprinting.com/materials/metal/3d-printing-metal/

    then check out this:

    http://www.stratasys.com/Resources/...-FDM-Technology-Case-Studies/Lamborghini.aspx



     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2012
  27. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    My Dad worked in the investment casting business for many years, and the company he worked for specialized in jet engine applications (fan blades, nozzle vanes, etc.). The 3D printing links you showed take engineering to a completely different level. The possibilities seem endless.

    Thanks for the info!
     
  28. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 243

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Here are some pics of a different FWD T. I found these on Flickr. I do remember Micheal Ferner commenting that the Hamlin Special did not have an impressive racing record.
     

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  29. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,935

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]


    “The Greatest American Racing Car” – Locomobile Old 16 – Part I is now up on The Old Motor. It is one of several posts we are going Wide Open Throttle on to tell the story in photos of the Mona Lisa of American racing cars. Stop by The Old Motor for much more information and another eleven photos not to be missed.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  30. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,170

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I found that third photo to be very interesting. It shows hairpin style control arms front and rear as early as 1926 instead of the more common split tapered control arms.

    Also, I like the unpainted body showing the weld seams...not unlike the way I built mine. I wonder if it was "leaded in" before paint? When did plastic filler begin?
     

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