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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    1914 GP Mercedes, DePalma looks happy with it. Did he ever make the motors mentioned in the 1916 article?
     

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  2. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Don Harkness at wheel of an Overland? RAC hill climb, Royal National Park, 1926
     

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  3. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,782

    The37Kid
    Member

    I've always liked the looks of this S.P.O. there was a nice feature on it in Automobile Quarterly 20-25 years ago. it was rerestored and I believe it is in the Colorado now. :)
     
  4. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    I just came across this photo of the Durant Miller Team cars. The back of the photo is labeled 1922 Beverly Hills board track, I am not certain if that is correct as I cannot find another photo of the grand stands or if the year is right.
     

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  5. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    You are right, it was redone in a beautiful French blue with canvas fenders and black leather, it is in a collection in California or was.
     
  6. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Raymond May's 'Factory' Car R4D...Shelsley Walsh



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  7. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    [​IMG]


    The inscription reads:

    A MODEST FRIEND A FINE GENTLEMAN
    AND A THOROUGH SPORTSMAN

    IN
    LOVING MEMORY
    OF
    PERCY E. LAMBERT
    AGED 32 YEARS

    THE FIRST MAN TO COVER ONE HUNDRED MILES IN ONE HOUR
    KILLED BY ACCIDENT AT BROOKLANDS MOTOR RACING TRACK
    WHILST ATTEMPTING FURTHER RECORDS OCTOBER 21ST 1913


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  8. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    [​IMG]


    Oldfield........... do I see canvas showing on those tyres ??


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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  9. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    [​IMG]

    Mario Mazzacurati, Franco Cortese, Piero Taruffi

    Maserati 6CM

    Capetown 14/01/1939; Grosvenor Grand Prix

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  10. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    [​IMG]


    HE (Herbert Engineering) at Shelsley Walsh 1922


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  11. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Another Shelsley picture


    Guy Warbarton 3 Litre Sunbeam

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  12. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Speed Trials Porthcawl Beach (South Wales)


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    Raymond Mays with his Bug at Porthcawl

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  13. twin6
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 2,237

    twin6
    Member
    from Vermont

    Another Shelsley Walsh photo, this one of Basil Davenport, 1928.
     

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  14. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

    Great to see these '20s hillclimb photos popping up.

    As the 1920s progressed, it seemed that Harkness and Hillier relied heavily on the refurbishment of Overland car engines to generate income. I guess it follows that they should use them in motor sport activities. Its a good photo. It looks to me like Norman "Wizard" Smith is riding as passenger.

    Here is another Harkness car built for the Wizard in 1929. Its ANZAC, with Rolls Royce Eagle VIII V12 aero engined fitted to a Cadillac. Not so much motor racing, but record breaking speed trials.
    - Jim
     

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  15. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

    Could be a modified MG K3 Magnette in the 2nd row.
     
  16. Jim Scammell
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 36

    Jim Scammell
    Member

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  17. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

  18. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    This is a 1929 photo of the 1922 supercharged Vauxhall with Raymond Mays at right with Amherst Villiers, 2nd from left.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Although I have spent a bunch of hours researching this topic I have never found the smoking gun. That is why in several posts back in this thread I referred to questions regarding which engine was placed in the Detroit Special built by DePalma and his patrons, Frank and Herbert Book-two Detroit millionaires.

    The pic below is Kirkpatrick I believe in SoCAl in 1919 with the Detroit Special. This car has been referred to over time as the Mercedes Copy. This car was built in Detroit by the DePalma Manufacturing Co. in 1916. DePalma like most of the racers needed money and there were a number of patrons in the sport that opened their wallets in this regards. Frank and Herbert Book were quite young (Frank in his early twenties and Herbert not yet 21) but they took a liking to Ralph and joined up with him to spend their money on racecars. DePalma Manufacturing was a business established to build racecars and possibly sporting type cars for rich Detroiters and hopefully others. They started with a pretty decent stable of cars but then the war hit and they converted to war work in 1917 and then after 1920 they spent much of their efforts building up Washington Boulevard in Detroit in honor of their recently deceased father and racing took a distant backseat. Their real last hurrah in their racing endeavors was the west coast events in late 1919 and early 1920. They sold most of their cars although Frank did keep the Detroit Special and drove it around Detroit until 1933 when the trail went cold for me. Don't know whatever happened after that.

    I had two pretty good discussions with Mrs Herbert Book back in the 80s. Although I can only imagine that she was a debutante when she met Herbert you could tell she really liked cars. She told me that during the period of the DePalma Manufacturing days she was engaged and then recently married to Herbert and either she spent time around the race shop or she would not see him much so she spent a bit of time there.

    According to her they built a number of engines and they were very proud of them. The Detroit Special raced at Indy in 1919 and since this was a car built by her husband they were very proud of the car. She went down to the 1919 race a few days early with Art Klein and some others. Klein drove their Peugeot in the race but most of the others had gone down earlier. She could not confirm which engine they had in the Detroit Special, although they were rightly proud that it was one of their engines. I did not want to put words in her mouth although I believe the engine in the Detroit Special may have been very similar to their other car which had been DePalma's old 1914 GP Mercedes which he won Indy with. She said I may be right on that as they spent a considerable amount of time with Ralph's old Mercedes (which the Book Brothers owned from 1916 on) and they made many parts for the car. She felt the two cars were similar and I kind of got the point that it was meant to be that way.

    I also have done quite a bit or research on Ralph's 14 Mercedes and the car was rebuilt a number of times in the Packard shops and I believe they made many parts for the engine and very well may have replicated much of the engine-just in an effort to keep it competitive. Between Packard and DePalma Manufacturing I believe they were pretty familiar with Mercedes motors and very well built several copies.

    So long story short I do believe they built the motors referred to in the article but I keep one eye open with the hope that I will find the smoking gun or at least a good picture of the car with the hood up to see how close it is if at all it is to the 1914 GP Mercedes.-Jim


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  20. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    More wonderful Lartigue photos of the 1912 French GP. The first, his note book with shows some of the effort he went to so he could capture these wonderful images.

    The second photo Wagner in his Fiat and the third and forth Boillot the winner in his Peugeot.

    Some background infomation on him;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Henri_Lartigue
     

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  21. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 818

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    Great picture! Yes, the stands look like Beverly, and the year could be right, too, although the full six-car team did not run before 1923. It may, however, be a press presentation picture from late December '22.
     
  22. fur biscuit
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,831

    fur biscuit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    a current engine shot of the Villiers Vauxhaul:

    [​IMG]
     
  23. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    It's Roy Hesketh's A-type ERA - I think it may have a jacket draped over the radiator! Behind you can see the nose of Chiappini's Maserati and beside Hesketh's car you can see Howe's ERA.

    Note that this photo proves that the usually accepted grid as published in Sheldon's Black Book is wrong. I've just sent the picture to Leif Snellman, so he will no doubt correct his Golden Era website in due course.
     
  24. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    Ani idea what it is ?
     
  25. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    Is this the only DOHC with rockers and pushrods ? The intercooler looks just like an oil cooler.
     
  26. psalt
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 101

    psalt
    Member
    from nyc

    Fastest woman...... in an American car....... 1934
     

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  27. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

    Photos by Lartigue of the Gallion Hillclimb in France, which was held on October 6, 1912.

    The first photo is a Bedelia cycle car driven by Bonville to a time of 39 seconds. The second photo is another two-seater Bedelia which I believe may be a production car. The third photo is a Hispano. The last photo is a Lion-Peugeot racing car, the photo taken from Lartigue's family car after the hillclimb on the trip back to Paris.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  28. gnichols
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 11,352

    gnichols
    Member
    from Tampa, FL

    In the just wondering department, are any of you thread-sters also model builders? At a swap meet recently I came upon a partially built 1/20 scale plastic model kit of "Itala Pechino Parigi 1907" - it was mfg by the Union Model Co, Tokyo and the kit number is C-02-1200. I have tried various web searches to find another kit, or other kits, made by this now (seemingly) defunct mfg. The box art indicates it was one of a series of classic car models (sorry I don't have a pix of the box right now). I can't find any production dates or other info on / in the kit.

    I don't know the whole story on the car - something about a Peking to Paris Rally? This is one site I've found on the car and the event, if I'm correct.
    http://www.parigipechino.it/impresa_en.htm

    The only other model I found today was this one...
    http://cgi.ebay.com/RIO-2-1907-iita...wItem&pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item27b12ad700

    Any thoughts? Seen this model? Thanx, Gary
     
  29. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Gary there's loads of info on the race out there, everyone was writing about it when they reran it a few years ago. Google Peking Paris Itala

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  30. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Jim thanks for that fascinating DePalma Mercedes history. He looks a lot happier in it than his 1914 French GP Vauxhall, the steering wheel looks like it came from a steam launch or a piece of workshop machinery.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010

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