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Auto Magazines filed Bankruptcy

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Buick59, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    I see nothing but good ahead. There is a LOT of innovation out there. A lot of shops that are bent on changing the world and changing with it. All the media has to do is cover it all in whatever way works the best. I could do without the pandering, politics and boring "safe" formulas though.

    This is a GREAT time, possibly the most important in history. Don't waste it.
     
  2. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    Absolutely true. That's where the whore's game comes into it. And other factors, of course. Still in all, it all comes down to content and presentation with the intent to communicate clearly. Doesn't seem like that would be so difficult, but it turns out it is.
     
  3. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    Totally true, although once one understands those standards, it's good to occasionally push the limits and expand the game. It's ill-advised to attempt that expansion without the prior knowledge and experience.

    One other thing to consider about the current state of publishing and the mass migration to the Web: Becoming a Web-only publication makes a publisher more dependent and less independent in some regards. You no longer control the means of distribution and can be shut down at any time through no fault of your own. (Another site I frequent was recently hacked and has been down a week. Fit that into your profit model.) You are also susceptible to other malicious interference. The more one clamps down on security issues, the more one changes the business culture and the entire society. Maybe some good from that, maybe not so much. You also shift the burden to technology to the consumer, who has to meet certain criteria in order to view the product. Every try to view a non-optimized Web site on your phone?

    (As I was posting this, I was booted off the WiFi network I was legitimately using.)

    To take this a little further afield, there is a connection (no pun intended) between what is happening to the publishing industry and the electrical grid, which is now under discussion on how to build it out to handle delivery of power from remote renewable energy generation locations to distribution centers and population centers. Instead of making energy creation closer to where it is used -- ie, home/business solar and wind power generation -- the push is to consolidate the effort and force the building of more infrastructure, which is, by it's nature, more vulnerable to any number of failures. Publishing's rush to become more dependent on this infrastructure just worsens the problem. They'll never make it 100 percent dependable, like, say, sitting on the can or laying in a hammock with 100 pages of glossy hot rod print in your hands.

    On and on ...
     
  4. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I can give the same arguments for print as well. What happens when the local distributor decides to stop carrying you publication. Or your mailman delivers it to the wrong house or not at all. Or someone steals mail. There are just as many chances to screw up print as web.
     
  5. 62nova
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 340

    62nova
    Member

    Maybe they should just fail since it's just a big monopoly now anyway. I used to have
    subscriptions to Car Craft Hot Rod and Popular Hotrodding until I started seeing the same articles in each one.
     
  6. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    [​IMG]

     
  7. hotrodladycrusr
    Joined: Sep 20, 2002
    Posts: 20,763

    hotrodladycrusr
    Member

    and it doesn't cost me, the consumer $6.00 per mag that doesn't show up in my mailbox.

    For lots it boils down to money.....internet information = free (lets face it we all have computers and internet service already)

    $20 worth of magazine subscriptions each month (I'm sure lots of you had/have double that easily) anyway, $20 per month for 12 month = $240. per year in savings. Hell, that's easily another out of state weekend car event for me and if I've got a pal with me I can get two weekends outta $240.00. It's all in the value. We didn't have a choice before for information, books, mags and TV were it. NOW we've got the internet!!

    I feel, like many others, the value is not there any longer. Whether it's real or preceived, if the consumer doesn't see a value in purchasing something then they aren't going to do so.
     
  8. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,716

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    The real investment isnt the sub or the price per issue.

    How much time does it take to read all the content in a magazine... ( while skipping over all the ads),
    a couple of hours?


    THAT is the investment...


    And if the issue is still in its wrapper, unopened, when the next one arrives in the mail,
    Than I guess there isnt enough value to offset that investment.

    That's the way it became for me.

    And I used to start reading them right away, before...
     
  9. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    I have to agree on several points... the stuff really does sell itself. :)

    ~Jason

     
  10. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    You know, I have to agree with some of this as well as Scott's post. I stopped drinking the Kool-Aid, and have several similar misgivings about them of late. And hell, I've fixed Apple stuff for well over 20 years!

    ~jason

     
  11. Van Dutch
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 247

    Van Dutch
    Member

    I know all about the print vs digital battle for share of mind that's been going on for some time, and there are people taking sides all over the place. But I was having trouble reconciling how a guy like Ryan could be so in tune with tradtitional ways, and then also be so passionate about the death of the traditional print medium of magazines.

    At first I thought, well, maybe it's a little hypocritical. Ok, but it's about his business model, he practically invented this kind of site, had the courage to walk away from the corporate future, the talent to create JJ, and he feels it to his core, and he so knows his shit about hot rods. So I give him all kinds of leeway. But still I wrestled with the paradox...

    Then I read the most recent issue of Garage, the troubled, often brilliant, but most likely doomed print child of Jesse, and in an interview with bike builder Ian Barry on pg 80, Ian names this as one of the tenets of his business:

    "To have the courage to embrace old wisdom while challenging old paradigms."

    I think I get it now.



     
  12. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    This is so true (albeit rare) but when it happens, you can pick up the phone (or email) and ask for a replacement copy. If your Internet connection doesn't work or your computer decides it doesn't like your comm settings or the Web site is so Flash laden as to be unviewable on an older computer or the site's down for maintenance, what's a body to do? Then distribution becomes the consumers problem. It takes a lot of love to keep returning to a problem Web site. :)
     
  13. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    Ever attempt to view a non-mobile-optimized, graphics-heavy Web site on a phone screen? As cool as the iPhone or Instinct (or Blackberry) is, it's not always easy to read text.
     
  14. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    That free Internet service sounds pretty good. My cable Internet costs me about $45 a month. And sometimes it doesn't work right, either. My computer wasn't free, as well, nor are the many hours I'm about to spend reinstalling the operating system. My touch screen phone is great for some things, not so much for reading someone's long tomb on the relative merits of flatheads.

    There is a misconception that information needs to be free. That would be nice if it were so, but it's not. There is a cost to everything and it's already been well established that many of the newspapers and magazines that gave it away for free are going belly up or at least rethinking their ways. One of the hidden costs is what it takes to search out information. Flipping through 30 pages of build content hoping the guy deals with putting '58 Rambler taillights on a '33 Packard could be a little frustrating. Not that it wouldn't be entertaining, mind you. :)

    Sites like JJ and some others are great and I applaud the work and foresight of people like Ryan who stepped out and tried something different and are making it work for themselves and their communities. Not to knock this wonderful site, but is this the most efficient means of communication for the enthusiast? I'd say the jury is still out on that.
     
  15. The Hard Way
    Joined: Jan 19, 2007
    Posts: 47

    The Hard Way
    Member

    I still buy magazines, and several of them are O/T car magazines, but I'm a print guy and I guess I'm in the minority. I do think it's funny that so many of you guys have a grudge against a publication that goes back to either:
    1) staff that's no longer on the magazine.
    2) one lame story that made you walk away forever.

    I check out this website and a couple of times a week just to see what projects are going on and I visit another to get news on the auto industry, and I've seen lame, poorly-written, biased threads in both, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop coming back. Some of you guys are so bitter it's scary. Take a deep breath, walk away from your computer, and go play with your car.

    Oh, and as for all the talk of Apple. . . if you guys want more companies to be like Apple, look forward to more outsourcing to China. Very appropriate comparison for a traditional hot rod board, eh?
     
  16. Still Runnin
    Joined: Jan 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,287

    Still Runnin
    Member
    from VA & FL

    Outsourcing is the worst to have happened to the print media, in my opinon. No one has mentioned the cost of paper in the print world goes up and up on a daily basis. Your daily newspapers are outsourced, local hometown ads being down for pennies from places that do not even understand our holidays to be able to place appropriate art in the ad.
     
  17. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I think in this day and age you are falling a bit behind, defend print all you want, the web isn't that hard, or that unreliable. There are just as many problems with print.

    Picking on the iPhone you are way our of your league. I do it all the time, as a matter of fact I showed Ryan the HAMB on an iPhone the day after they came out, it looks fine, it's called zoom. :eek: The iPhone is the one that I actually prefer them not to mobile optimize sites, it handles regular ones very well. I think you may be a little out of your league here.

    a. your OS issues on your computer and your touch screen phone, sounds like you need to make better choices when you buy technology. :rolleyes:

    b. the articles I find here and on other sites on the net are far more detailed than anything I have found in a magazine, and I can ask questions and get answers.

    c. No jury neccessary, it is the most efficient means of communication by far. I can go look at nothing but Internationals if I like, get technical help, ask questions get answers, submit information. and on and on. I'm sorry you don't get the web. I will continue to buy certain magazines but for the most part I skip a lot that I used to buy a few years ago. They're way behind and unless they can figure out how to add value I won't spend the money.
     
  18. hotrodladycrusr
    Joined: Sep 20, 2002
    Posts: 20,763

    hotrodladycrusr
    Member

    What he^^^ said.

    Typical guy....read what you want to see.....:rolleyes:

    I typed, "internet information = free" NOT "free internet", although in my world my internet and cable ARE free, yes free porn too, but that's only cuz I work for the cable company.:D
     
  19. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I'm am enjoying free internet right now at the coffee shop... :D
     
  20. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    Ditto... but at work! T3, baby! ;)

    Sadly, my MacBook Pro hardly ever comes out of the bag anymore when I get home. I use the iPhone to do pretty much whatever I need to do on the internet. And yeah, I can respond to posts, write emails on it, etc, but I'm spoiled - I wait until I get to work and use a real keyboard! LOL! :D

    But hell yeah man - I look at the HAMB and a few other boards on my iPhone all the time. Hell, I'm thinking about ditching my cable for the internet at home, too - I can always tether my WiFi router to the iPhone and problem solved (even my TiVo can download the TV schedule, etc that way).

    Print will never die, but it's nice to be able to read the HAMB on the shitter or wherever...

    ~Jason

     
  21. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,702

    Abomination
    Member

    I don't know if you can call it outsourcing if your stuff has always been made there. Now assembly, that's been outsourced to the Chinese. They put 'em up in dorms, "company store" style and work 'em to death.

    ~Jason



     
  22. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    Naw, not falling behind a bit. In a previous post I noted that I've done Web publishing, as well. Worked in IT for the past almost ten years (just left a large educational organization) and have used ditigal publishing tools since they were the newest, latest thing. I was in journalism school when desktop computers and workstations first arrived. Electronics, especially in publishing, to me have always been about the tool, not the lifestyle. And clearly print has it's problems. Said that, too.

    Zoom all you want. You're making readability concessions for portability gains by reading and scrolling on some tiny realestate. I use an Instinct, which, granted, is not on the same level as an iPhone, but it's the same concept. I can zoom on it too but, for me, if the site's not optimized for mobile devices it gets old pretty quickly chasing type all over the screen. If you are comfortable relying on the small screen, more power to you, but that doesn't make you the norm. Some people may not care for the $70+ monthly data plan on a $450 cell phone.

    I only brought up my desktop OS issues as an example of a problem associated with transferring the means of distribution. You might be surprised at how many people have problems lurking on their computers and don't even know it. BTW, I haven't had a serious computer problem for many years, most of which have been on PCs, although I used a Mac some at work. Stuff gets corrupted, it's the nature of the technology, especially in a click-away world.

    Can't deny that. This is a wonderful site and community, as are others. Please note that I've never said print is the perfect medium, either. One of the differences between well-established print pubs and sites like this is that here (and elsewhere) everyone can be an expert, qualified or not. If the reader has been around a while, he may know when he's being BS'd. Newbies not so much. One could rely on past magazines (maybe not so much now) to give out solid information for several reasons, including liability issues, pride and editorial standards. Now, I can search on, say, tire mounting and find lots of dangerous suggestions on using flammable substances and a match to inflate a newly-mounted tire. Most reputable print publications wouldn't touch that for fear of transferring ownership of their resources through the court system. ;)

    As I've said, it's not that I don't get the Web. I've been creating Web sites since 1996 and helped move both businesses and institutions to the Web ever since. I've been a content provider, editor and designer. I also said that I've dropped all my auto-related print subscriptions and rarely pick up anything on the news stand these days. In your evangelical zeal, you're missing the conversation. What I'm saying is that unless the Web is done correctly, it doesn't really resolve anything for publishing viability. Because some people can adapt the technology to make it work for them isn't what I'd call a solid economical base.
     
  23. bkap
    Joined: Dec 2, 2007
    Posts: 119

    bkap
    Member

    :D But you're making it way too easy for me to see what I want to see. "Internet information = free" doesn't take into account the cost of whatever device you are using to view that Internet information. And some of us would rather not seek out a coffee shop when we want to view the Internet. Maybe that's just me...

    Sorry to say most of us don't have your work connections. ;)
     
  24. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 8,355

    5window
    Member

    One thing the 'net can't do is present me with diversity. I have a very wide range of interests-both professional and recreational. The internet provides me with a great resource to find exactly what I am looking for. A library provides me with a great resource to find what I didn't KNOW I was looking for. Walking into a library shows me all kinds of offerings on all kinds of topics. Searching for a particular subject might lead me to something right next to it I'd really be interested but completely different from my search. No search engine offers that.
     
  25. f1 fred
    Joined: Apr 29, 2005
    Posts: 514

    f1 fred
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from mn

    I second that!
     
  26. Gearhead Mike
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 38

    Gearhead Mike
    Member

    What an interesting thread. I haven't raised my ad rates since 2001 by the way, and a sub is the same as it was in 1995, despite my costs going up constantly. Yes, I know I'm a "bad capitalist" but I never thought about doing a magazine as a way to make money, more as a creative outlet for me and my friends. Plus back when I started in 1993, there were no so-called kustom kulture magazines, so we were filling what I saw as a huge need. As long as people dig it, I'll keep doing it
     
  27. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Blah blah blah, been there done that. Me and Al Gore built this bitch. :D
    Hell I've worked off and on in IT for a long time, ISP's, Start Ups, Universities. Most of them don't get it either, at least the business side doesn't. With your experience why don't you get it?

    It's tha same as scrolling on a tiny laptop, hell it's better than that, and it makes sense. But then if you don't have one I guess you wouldn't. :p And $70 data plan? where? Half that...

    Well it's like changing your oil, if you don't know enough to maintain them maybe you should step away. :eek:

    There's as much BS in print as on the web. It's a bit easier to check on the web.

    Well since the majority of print people have decided that an archaic and self destructive business model is what they will continue with, well they will get what they deserve. I'm just sorry that it is gonna take a lot of good people out with it. I'm thinking we will see more niche zines pop up.
     
  28. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 8,355

    5window
    Member

    Maybe true, but why the anger?
     
  29. Dirtynails
    Joined: Jan 31, 2009
    Posts: 843

    Dirtynails
    Member
    from garage

    OK ,the print media is DEAD. Got it?
    None other than Rupert Murdoch himself (AKA little satan) announced that his revenues for advertising had fallen by over 90%.
    face it,Most on here don't buy magazines ,whose main income is all those pages of advertising ,and prefer to spend a few minutes on here each day keeping up with news ,trends etc etc .

     
  30. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    what are you talking about? Anger? No anger there, you must be imagining it. Maybe you're to close to TMI. :rolleyes:
     

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