Well i hate to say it but i am giving up on my 56 Dodge....I have a heating problem that has me beat....I got alot of suggestions from you guys on the HAMB...and i tried them all...The list is huge of things i have done....another set of heads...3 different sets of head gaskets...messed with the timing going up and going down....moved the electric fan no less than 5 times...not to mention flopping the blades around twice...got rid of the electric fan and put a flex fan....19" diameter 5 blade..heat really got bad...no thermostat to a 160 to a 180 to a 195 and back to a 160....put the mechanical fan 3/4" away from the radiator....moved it 3" away from the radiator...put 2 different junk yard rads in it just to see if it would make a difference....first one i knew wouldnt cuz it was a 2 core...yep i wasted my time but i was desperate...next was a monster out of a ford diesel truck...now i didnt mount these two test subjects they were just kinda sitting in there but i thought the diesel one was going to work...it didnt Pulled the thermostat and put a washer in it with a 11/16 hole in the middle...ran hot....called the rad company that i bought the rad from and told them what i had done...they said can you see bubbles in the anti freeze??...no you cant...is it circulating?? yes it is....try this fan thing...i already did that...hmmmmm well i guess you may have a cracked head....well that was the last straw...i snapped.....almost traded it off for a 88 corvette....luckily the guy said my car was to rough when he got done picking the Dodge apart and saying it was rather ugly and he would need some cash to boot....I told him i would pass and just cover it up and let it sit...for how long i dont know....i guess right now i need a break....maybe i'll go pick on my 38 for a little while and see what i can get done on it.
"put 2 different junk yard rads in it just to see if it would make a difference.." Houston,,we have a problem.
bummer, giving yourself a little time to cool off right now might be a good idea do something that you can accomplish something on and it will get your spirits up at least thats how it works with me. Good luck
it happened to me, make sure you use a reliable temp gage, sometimes the old gages seem ok but they read wrong, and make sure some under hood sheetmetal is not missing that casues the air to flow over the rad not through it.
water wetter. worked for me on this old buick i had that would over heat any time i drove it. i did all the same stuff you did too
I feel your pain. I've been there. Especially when you think, "this has got to fix it!" and it gets a little better- but it still isn't fixed. I bought a little kit to test for combustion gasses in the coolant. Hell, I even pulled the freeze plugs and fished around in the coolant passages. It's very frustrating. But don't let it beat you. If you tried other heads and it still had problems, then I wouldn't guess your heads are the problem (well, not the only problem). That's the other thing- it could be a combination of small things. But man, I know how you feel when all you want to do is drive the damn thing without staring down the temp gauge!
I was thinking that too. With a damaged or missing distribution tube, water doesn't circulate to the back of the motor(where the temp sender most likley is).
I don't enjoy beating my head on the wall chasing problems like that as well...it used to make me crazier in a bad way.It will probably happen again in the near future with what Im trying to do.So be it. You'll figure it out man. Keep pluggin
No the hoses are the flex cool aluminum ones....if that sucks flat..that would be a problem...The guages were a thought too....went from a rebuilt or should i say restored factory guage to a mopar direct guage and then i thought well its because these are electric guages so i went and got a autometer mechanical guage....which grew legs and ran away from the car...the weird part...well one of the weird parts...i went and bought one of those infra red point and it tell you the temp gun....when i first start the car and it sits idiling the temp starts to build up..which is normal but what was not was the gun would read the same temp for both the top and bottom lower rad hose....the middle of the rad would be cooler...some typical readings would be 191 for both of the hoses and 156 for the middle of the rad...i thought this gun is messed up..point it at the headers it bounces from 498 to 525....point it at the heads both of them would bounce from 191 to 198.... drive the car down the street cuz you think this is not a bad operating temp and bang the guage pegs and its puking anti freeze at the first stop sign...took the rad and had it checked...just to see if it had a block in it..came back with an ok nothing wrong here stamp...i would probably be less fed up if this was a race motor...cuz they run a little warmer...but this is basically a stock 440....closed chamber heads this time...flat top pistons....the compression is now at 10.5...the bumpstick is a purple shaft from dodge...an msd ignition...and dual quads...nothing really exotic and mysterious...just a plane jane...and she dont want to run.. As for the junk yard rads let me rephrase...my friend has a garage and all of the vehicles he collects for mud trucks go into the back yard..the junkyard...they are in most cases still running vehicles waiting for there turn to be torn apart...gutted....and souped up to go through a big mud puddle...not my cup of tea but he likes to do it...so the rads were and are still good units...just not new shiny ones....the trucks dont overheat with them back in there home
Did you look at pulling off your actual water pump? Maybe its not circulating right or maybe not at all.
440 Mopars can be a real bitch to keep cool. A friend of mine has a 440 six pack Cuda, and that thing uses ANY excuse to overheat! Believe it or not, hoses are critical! It was a show car back in the 80s and she had braided radiator hoses on the thing and it would send the temp right through the roof! I put stock rubber hoses on it for her and it ran much cooler, but would still overheat and puke if it had to sit at all. She runs an electric fan in addition to an engine mounted fan. I put a 160 high flow (key words...HIGH FLOW!) thermostat in it and some aftermarket water pump on the car for her maybe ten years ago and that solved most of it's cooling issues. It has a stock HD radiator for an air conditioned automatic (which the car is) and the basic performance mods. I can't recall who made the water pump, but it was a modified unit. It MIGHT have been a FlowKooler, but I can't remember for certain...I'll ask her if she knows what it is next time I see her. The machine work on the engine was done at Holbrook Enterprises and one guy there tipped us off that big block Mopars have an infamous water pump problem and he ordered the pump for her. The car still gets a LITTLE hot in traffic...but nothing like it used to. Maybe something worth looking into on yours??
the 440 in my Chally never got too hot, but I had electric fan and the 160 HIGH FLOW just like your setup Fat Hack but I am looking at his etup and saying water pump is about the only thing left.
That was gona be my guess too! rotten blades...... works at idle but not at speed! Does it heat up if you just hold it at a higher idle without driving anywhere?
At this moment i have a aluminum water pump from direct connection...you can see the antifreeze circulating in the rad when you have the cap off...i havent tried running both fans at the same time or running rubber hoses...i guess i will give that a shot and see what happens
Since i put the mechanical fan on it...yes it will heat up just sitting there at a higher rpm...i was never a real fan of the flex fan...ha ha a little joke...this one scares me...when you run it up on the rpm it seems to have a death whine to it...like it is waiting for you to stick your head under there so it can come apart
On a limb here maybe, but do BB Mopars have standard V belt drive pumps and reverse rotation serpintine belt pumps like Chevys? A pump made to spin backwards thats spinning forwards wouldn't move much coolent.
Another thought...is there a heater core in the car...or at least a heater by-pass hose? I know that small block Mopars use a Ford style by-pass hose between the intake and the water pump, but I can't recall offhand if big block Mopars do. I only bring it up because I had a Monte Carlo with a 305 that would overheat instantly unless the heater was on at least a little. It was an 86 with a heater control valve and I discovered through trial and error that the valve HAD to be open at least a little, or the engine would peg the temp gauge within minutes. I drove that thing with the heater on even in the Summer, but that kept it cool! Some motors seem to "get by" with the heater hoses or by-pass hoses plugged...but I never do it...that old Monte Carlo taught me that!!
Thats a good question bugman..this is my first mopar so it has been a big learning curve...i got rid of the stock v-belt pulley set up and bought a March's aluminum serpentine pulley set up for it...the reason behind this is my friend who has the stock set up in his road runner keeps throwing the alt belt...and they say the serps dont get thrown...but i didnt think the pulleys would affect it
Nope i dont have a heater core in the car..the passages are plugged of at the block....if i knew it would help i would try to find a heater core to put into it...even though it would be a beastie to do
You wouldn't have to put a heater core in the car, just loop a length of hose from one of the plugged fittings to the other with no kinks and see what happens. Some engines respond better to this than others, but it's a simple thing to do...and it may get you closer to solving your problem???
Double check your Serp setup. if the belt is on the other side of the pully than stock(like pulling off the bottom of the pully instead of pulling off the top), the pump is spinning backwards. IIRC, the water pump should be spinning clockwise.
Not sure if this is help or hindrance ,but here goes. From what of your post I read- is it possible the change to serpentine belt is turning pump wrong direction/ Or, if it has a custom radiator and [custom mount] is the radiator lower than the engine at ....say,its water kneck level? Im suggesting air cavitation,an unfilled water jacket situation ,Or have you "cleared" that??
It is also possible that the aftermarket pulleys have changed the speed that the water pump turns. That would effect the temp. Also, are you running an overflow tank? They do a great job at getting rid of trapped air pockets. Also, the temp guage goes in the water pump housing, it isn't bottoming out and the tube is not touching any of the metal on the motor, right? The heater hose probably is not going to make any difference. On the bb Mopar the water for the heater comes from the pump, goes through the core and returns through the pump housing. The thermostat is at the upper rad hose, there is no need for a bypass. BTW the hole size for the thermostat plate is 5/8". You can test the water flow through the rad by sealing a 5/8" garden hose to the upper rad hose fitting and running a full blast water flow through the rad hose. With the cap off, the water should exit the bottom of the rad without reaching the cap outlet. If the water flow backs up out the rad cap the rad is particially plugged. If your infared thing is telling you the temp at both the upper and lower rad hoses are the same temp but the center of the rad is cooler, sure sounds like a coolent flow problem to me. If there is actually water running through the rad, how did it go from being cool back to getting hot just by passing to the upper hose? I am presuming that there isn't a bunch of junk built up in the block coolent passages, has a freeze plug been pulled lately to see if there is crap in the coolent passages in the block? I ran a bunch of bb Mopars on circle tracks back in the day. Throwing belts was not much of a problem unless the alt brackets were flexing. The long curved one can flex a bit. The only time we had overheating was on long races the heat could slowly build (to about 210) or when we were about to loose a motor it would start running hot. We turned these stock bb 5,000-6,200 (factory redline was 6200 with a stock Mag motor) the whole race. I recomend a set of stock pulleys, a solid seven blade fan, a good water pump, check the flow of the rad, check to be sure the temp guage is not got the capolary tube against metal, and an over flow tank. Gene
Some years ago my buddy ran into a similar sounding problem. He put a fresh 440 truck block into this fellas motor home. It immediately overheated. He did everything you described and MORE to fix it. NADA. In desperation he called DIRECT CONNECTION and sought help. They told him that the head gaskets were to blame and he needed some special truck ones or something - anyways he ordered them and installed them - nothing. He installed a BIGGER radiator - nada - then had it recored - nada. You name it he checked it - water pump rotation - impeller slipping - air pocket - FREAKING everything. In desperation he called DIRECT CONNECTION again. They were stumped and gave him the number of a mopar "expert" so he calls this "expert" and low and behold it's Don Garlits - Garlits tells him he knows what the problem is and that it's a 10 minute fix!!! At this point my buddy figures this clown is clueless and definitely ain't freakin' Garlits. Well since my buddy is DESPERATE he holds his tongue and listens. Garlits goes on to tell him that (some, all, certain? - forgive me my memory ain't that great) trucks had a "franklin" thermostat (? don't quote me - possible shitty memory again) . Which as I understand had some sort of bypass built in. As I recall (?)my buddy described it - the thermostat housing had an extra void at the bottom of the well and needed a thermostat with some sort of goiter on the bottom. Anyways I guess you can't hardly get the thermostat so he went junkyardin and either found the thermostat or got the whole housing - I forget. Bottom line - it WAS Garlits - he diagnosed it in seconds - and he was right. My buddy took his advice and the resulting problem was that the damn thing ran TOO COOL now - all the "improvements" my buddy did were all working great now. My buddy lost his ass on that job. Sorry I couldn't be more specific - and I apologize for the sketchy details - but no one hit on this possibility and maybe some one who is actually familiar with these can provide the specifics I am lacking.
Thanks I now have a few more things to check...i'll pull the pump and see how many fins it has and if it is going the right direction...i thought parts were parts and just ordered them from direct connection..i should have done some more homework...the block should be clear i just got it back from the machine shop and had new cam bearings and freeze plugs put in it...but i never checked the passages..i just chased all of the bolt holes and washed it down with soap and water to make sure all of the metal shavings were gone...I do have a puke tank on the car which seems to work when its getting hot it starts filling up and spitting out the top vent and when it cools off it pulls the fliud back in...where i had to mount the radiator now to get it to clear the mechanical fan it does sit a little higher than the motor...it is off center about 3" would that be enough to cause cavitation?
Man, I feel for ya. Seems like lately I have been through some really frustrating problems too. It sounds like HemiRambler may have you fixed. But in the meantime, I like to suggest a few things to check and do. I dont recall reading that youve verified that you dont have a cracked block or such. Beg, borrow or steal one of the sensors that pick up gasses in your liquid coolant and check it out. One more thing, you didnt say your block was cleaned or boiled out. I had a block that was a good runner but would overheat. I wasnt about to take it apart to have it cleaned . I drained all the coolant and filled it totally with white vinegar. Ran it this way for a day. Then drained and flushed and did it again for a full week. I cant describe how ugly the crap was that came out. The engine runs perfectly now. Once a year I give it a good douche just for good measure. Good luck! Take a break and get back to work.
The March pullys are what they call a 'serpentine conversion' where the accessories spin the same way as with the 'V' belt... but uses a serpentine belt to help with throwning belts. I had an issue in my El Camino where it was running fine while driving and would peg like you said... would go from 180 to 230 instantly. I had blocked off the heater core by using pipe plugs in the intake and water pump. I switched it and connected the two blocked off ports with a chunk of hose and the problem was solved.
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