are all machine shops so slooooow?

Depending on the attitude of the supplier, and the people actually doing the work, the quality of crate engines can vary quite a bit. There are some big names providing create engines that are pretty much just slapped together. If you have a good machine shop & engine builder you can, if everything goes well, end up with a higher quality end result. At the other extreme, crate engines tend to meet at least some minimum level of quality, so the chances of getting a dud are lessened compared to what can happen with a defective custom built unit.

Unless you can get really good deals on parts and services, crate engines are usually a better value than doing it custom. Some people buy a crate engine, disassemble, inspect, and measure everything, correct as needed, and still come out ahead.

 

Years ago I worked for a small non-automotive machine shop where the guys drank beer while running milling machines, lathes, grinders, etc. During the short time I was there the owner(original owner's grandson) decided that drinking should be limited to lunch time. Most of the guys in the shop were really indignant about it!

 

ONLY THE REALLY GOOD ONES!!!!!!!!!!!
Besides do you want it done FAST or do you want it done RIGHT!

 

Please discuss all points in detail:

1) Are there any accredited/or non-accredited(but decent) schools that teach machining? Are there degree's/accredations associated with machining?

a) i think Joe Mondello offers a course. Will look into this further.

2) What do you think of the idea of opening up a Do-it-yourself machine shop? You know how, if you pay more money, you can build the engine of your new ZR-1 corvette yourself---with supervision? This would be similar; With this concept, you would do all the machining work required for your project yourself---with supervision from shop staff of course.

a) You would learn more, get more enjoyment out of the whole machine shop process/ordeal/experience.

b) Could hopefully insure that there is less BS, mistakes, poor workmanship etc., because you are actively participating in the process and hopefully asking the right questions etc.

c) Can really say you did it yourself and i feel this right here would be a large reason why i think this concept would be successful.

3) Here is a store policy from one of my local shops. i think it's worth a read:
http://www.laddporting.com/ShopPolicy.html

4) i have a link which i will dig up shortly discussing why many shop owners are liars/bad people----essentially losers.

 

And then some poor schmuckola off the street jams his hand in the mill head, and bye bye concept...

 

The answer to that question is YES.

 

I took a pair of dual port VW heads into a shop when i was into sand rails. I knew the guy was slow, but before i got them back i was out of the sand rail thing. A couple years later I talk to a guy who's lookin for a pair of dual ports and i told him about the shop I had taken mine to. He went there and they guy at the shop said "I wondered who those belonged to"....they still weren't done..........

 

Crate engine??????? Crate engine??????? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
You never know WHO is putting WHAT in or from WHERE!
You would be better off getting an engine from a junk yard or stick yourself with pins under your fingernails then deal with a "crate engine".

 

I also thought that a crate engine was attractive idea,so I bought a 290hp small block chevy from jegs (GM Performance ) and got a bunk motor. I so thought no problem it has a warranty, what I got was a lot of red tape and told to go to dealership. Ok thats fair so I did, they told me that it would'nt run because it had a quadrajet (also new from jegs) on it, and that sbc won't run with those types of carbs.( I swear the is the truth)Obviously thats crap so I took it my truck home immediatly,called GM warrany dept, they said it pretty common that dealerships are combative towards these types of warranties,mainly because they did'nt do the installation, and I should keep trying different ones until I got one to cooperate. really? This is dissapointing,jegs also refuses to help. So I guess the moral of the story would be, at least if I delt with a shop I could talk to someone responsable face to face. BTW I realise this situation is the exception not the rule.

 

"Why did they put a guarantee on the box?"
"Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time." -From Tommy Boy

This is how I feel about the "Crate Engine Warranty"

A few bad experiences and a big shipping bill.

 

Tommy Boy AAAHHHH !!!!!!!! One my favorite movies for sure. So what did you think of the "CRATE ENGINE" I was building Saturday ??? Good to see you and the family Mike !! Crate Engines SUCK !!! >>>>.

 

I own a machine shop. I spent half of today dealing with telemarketers who can't speak english, a guy that came in for the second time asking about making custom splined axles ( and he still doesn't want to pay "custom" prices ) and a "minimum wager " that wants to build a "1500 horse" engine for his rusty daily driver mustang. The other half day was working on stuff that pays. There are bad shops and also bad customers. If you find a good shop pay them promptly. They deserve it for providing a quality prompt service. With the influx of "Hecho en Mexico" crate engines & chinese aftermarket parts, good machine shops are getting harder to find.

 

i deal with a company that does high volume industrial engines all year long they are busy.so i call the shop manager when i have an engine to be built and ask his price.once we agree on a price i ask if he has a machinist who would be interested in making a little extra cash staying after work each day to get the job done right.and almost always the answer is yes and i give the machinist some cash.the shop owner gets what he wants,the machinist is happy for the cash,and i get what i want.the guy that worked on my flathead block got an extra 200 bucks for christmas and my engine was done in a week and done right.now he sends me an e mail once a month asking how im doing,hows the flathead running and if i have any new projects coming up.give it a try.and stay away from the machine shops that have their own race cars because price is usually set by how much money they need to fix their last catastrophy.

 

I think this is a very far fetched idea. I cant believe how many people have complained about things getting messed up, and you think random people can set up and dial in all the machines and produce quality work? I am not trying to step on any toes. I don't know if you were serious. BUT WOW!

 

C-10 has an interesting idea. It would require a great deal of footwork and patience, I think.

 

Automachining is not for the faint hearted. After i finished my last pro build (lemans practice engine for old style nascar race car) I sold all of my equipment to one guy who was going to start machining. I am betting my boring bar has not run since and the rigid sunnen hone is dry and dusty. I know the flow bench has never been plugged in and the rod hone is out of oil. It has now been 5 years. It is not an easy job. I learned it during my apprenticeship which back in the day Auto machine was included under our ticket (class A auto mech). Then they split it off. I held for awhile your USA ASE master machinist ticket too but let it run out . Truth of the matter is boring is boring. big time, but it also requires one to be on top of it at all times. You cant ingnore it. At least I dont . I am there the whole cut even though the machine is semi auto once started and set up. Honing by hand which is how i do it is a tedious job and hard work. You want no taper , you want a good finish , you want the right crosshatch. Rod resizing is to a 1/10 of a thou. I was anal about it and prided in having mine bang on. Valve work and head work is critical because there is power to be had by taking care and being particular. Some guys dont take the time or care. Even some who taught me I dont want touching any head of mine. It takes a certain mindset do do quality work. For me the quality was what i wanted and the tediousness of the work was incidental. I never wanted anyone to pull down one of my motors or heads and say "man! This the crappy!" I always tried to work like it was being inspected tomorrow. Not everyone can work that way which is why there are not a lot of machine shops. Mine was old ,antique almost, equipment and so it wasnt the speediest but that has nothing to do with the accuracy. It is a trade one could learn but you need an old master to teach you. Just saturday one of the lads with a new fangled RED who i did work for in the past said to me selling you machine shop was the dumbest thing you ever did. (It wasnt. With failing eyesite and bad health I knew I was reaching the point where i couldnt produce the quality i wanted and I had no intention of turning out poop. In every life there comes a time when you know it is time. ) When your engine though has sat in the guys shop for 6 weeks or more and hasnt been touched just take it elsewhere.He aint really interested and therefore probably wont do a decent job either.
Don

 

It hard to find knowlegable, motivated, skilled, reliable people. That is true of mechanics, painters, lawyers, etc, etc, AND machinists. There are some bad machine shops and lot of mediocre ones. Most do work that is good enough most of the time. For anything better than that you are looking for one of a small minority of higher-end shops.

 

The "CRATE ENGINE"... it was ok...if your into that sort of thing
Nasty big block!!!

Yea it was good to see you too. My wife is still laughing about the snowmoile hp vs her car hp!!!

I know some guys have all the luck with crate engines and such but I have had two bad ones from some very reputable "Crate Engine" sellers. The Tommy Boy quote fits because that is exactly what they did Cost me the labor to take them out, ship them back, put them back in to the customers car. NOT FUN.


After reading this thread and the generalizations made about machine shops, I was very suprised to find you were working on Saturday, not drunk, had equipment that would cost in excess of 500k, ect...

Hey guys his grass was mowed and he didn't even have a sign that said "Do you want it done fast or done right"

This machine shop thread reminds me of the Hot Rod shop threads. There are people in every business you can imagine that will screw you, and there are people in every business you can imagine that will give you great customer service. It is the person, not the profession.

 

Listen! Not all the good shops are unobtainable. Even the best know about todays economy. They do realize that a buck, from a guy that doesn't walk around with blank checks falling out of his pockets, is still a buck more then they had. And, believe it or not, some shop owners are actually gasoline drinken', motorheadin', car nuts and not just "green cultivators" ($)! It is these shop owners that have, not only a passion, but a concern for your project and are more than willing to work with you (within reason). No they're NOT going to build you a $75,000.00 Pro-Mod motor for $1995.00 but they will try to give you the biggest and best bang for your buck. The good shops will build you that engine at a fair price and use the best parts they know work because its their name on that build. The last thing they want is for you to go down the road or down the track and scatter an engine they built. They know that if this happens, the first call won't be to the shop, it'll be to all your buddies and cruisers and they don't want that. Anyway! I use this sinario from experiance. The engine in my Nova Wagon was built by "Oddy's Dynotuned Engines". Yes the same shop that builds those really expensive Pro-Mod and Puller motors, the same shop started by the former N.H.R.A. and I.H.R.A. record holding Jim Oddy. Billy Leverentz (current owner and Oddy's right hand man) worked closely with me to build me a very respectable "dynoed" engine, with no imported parts, at a very affordable price. So talk to an engine builder, feel him/her out, see if they want to build you a good engine in your budget (if a good one is in your budget) or if they just don't care about anything but their wallet! Good engine builders are NOT as scarry as you think!
As far as GM goes: There is a reason why they are in the financial position they are in! This is coming from a GM person.

 

The guy started the thread was talking about his FLATHEAD, Who said anything about production shops? stick to the facts, most automotive machine shops have no-where near $500,000 in equiptment!!

 

ONCE AGAIN, the guy was talking about his flathead , which part of this job would be done on a Hass cnc machining center?
Blanket statements are always inaccurate, so is yours !

 

I AGREE! The guy that started this thread was referring to "machine shops" in general. He wants to have his engine built not pop in a junk "crate motor". My posts referring to "crate motors" was to just enlighten people that "cheap and easy" is NOT always better! An engine is an engine to a good reputable machine shop. To the guys with the multi-million dollar equipment remember "the tool doesn't make the mechanic"!

 

Ok I guess I'll quit ranting !! I gotta balance a crankshaft !!! >>>>.

 

You better or you'll be on the "slooooow shop" list!

 

That goes for shop owners as well. The machine shop I worked at this spring had a 'good enough' attitude, and the owner actually encouraged the machinists to 'just get it done.' They valued speed over quality, and tons of stuff came back as a result. I worked there less than 6 months, and was happy to get away from that place. I was too slow for the owner's tastes, even though nothing of mine ever came back.

Nick

 

THAT'S MY POINT! Going back to my original post "do you want it done fast or do you want it done right"! Also, its obvious that this shop is one of those that only care about "green cultivating" ($)!

 

At least when you get machine work done and assemble the engine yourself, you have the opportunity to check what they have done, "feel" it as you assemble it, ect. Buying a crate motor and plugging it in the car, you are COMPLETELY at the mercy of the guys who did the work.

 

Crate motors are like a box of chocolates: "You never know what your gonna get"

 

Good post. I'll say something else. Just as the kind of guy who can recognize a hack machinist from someone who takes it seriously and is dedicated to getting right can usually tell pretty quick who he is dealing with, the reverse is also true.
When you walk into a machine shop, they are immediately sizing you up by what YOU say, and what comes out of YOUR mouth. And if the first two questions are "how soon" and "how much" they know who they are dealing with.

 

I'm about to take my 401 Nailhead to a builder. What can I expect to pay for a freshing up job on mine. I figure they will have to bore at least 30 over with new pistons.