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Technical ***April 2020 Banger Meet Thread - Shelter in Shop***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. murf 32
    Joined: May 30, 2013
    Posts: 63

    murf 32
    Member

    I don't think so. nice spark to points and no pitting or marks. I'm going to change them once I get a new set after the lock down. Thanks for the reply I'm going to try all suggestions. I'm still learning
     
  2. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 49

    poshdbs
    Member

    When I first drove mine (after importing) down the drive it was fine but could I get back up the drive? Spluttered and banged and hardly drove! Condenser had failed just like that! Worth a check...

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  3. murf 32
    Joined: May 30, 2013
    Posts: 63

    murf 32
    Member

    Thanks poshdbs
    I'm going to see if the local motor factors is open they used to open on Sunday or if they are even open at all .Don't worry I'm keeping within the 2k radius. Thank you and stay safe. Murf
     
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  4. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @murf 32 Lets see if I can get my head around this. The B timing cover is drilled so it is something like 9 degrees cam advance from the A timing cover. That 9 degrees cam advance is 18 degrees distributor advance. So you need to rotate the rotor and cam in the direction of rotation, some 19 degrees, from where you would time an engine with an A cover when you static time it.
    Did I state that in an understandable way?
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
  5. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Been working on a messed up rear fender on the Vicky...body work sure does take time....I guess that is why I'm a leg man
    1587917392822.jpeg

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  6. murf 32
    Joined: May 30, 2013
    Posts: 63

    murf 32
    Member

    I think so.
    It has a B cover on it. I have it nearly there.I think. I will try what you were suggesting. I was hoping there was like a nurex magic timing tool for the B. Lol. Just got a new condenser also. Thanks for all your help. Murf
     
  7. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,089

    johnneilson
    Member

    maybe not, the distributor angle is 1/2 of the crank angle. Crank make 720 degrees for every 360 of dist.
    I try to make it as simple as possible, if the TDC is known on the motor, some use the cover and dimple.
    Set the motor at TDC.
    Rotate the crank to where you want it to fire, typically 5-10 degrees before TDC depending on the distributor.
    Now disconnect the condenser and coil from the distributor.
    Use an OHM meter or continuity tester thru the points.
    The instant the points open is when the spark occurs, this is same for setting a mag.

    Hope this helps, John
     
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  8. Unfortunately I don't! However, If I did it again I would make it an actual Dry Sump; which it really is now, with the reservoir beneath the crankcase. I'd put the reservoir elsewhere because, as can be seen in the photos it sticks too low beneath the engine! engine14 (2017_06_30 15_13_08 UTC).jpg Gezzers (2018_02_11 18_51_06 UTC).jpg BE14.jpg BE2019.2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
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  9. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes,
    John what you say is true and I'm always going to be confused and I still get my b and d backwards. I knew someone would auto correct me if I was backwards. Thank you. I believe that his problem is with initial timing not anything else.
    If he has a B cover it is not drilled for TDC it is advanced so if you use it for TDC like an A it isn't TDC
    I always install an A cover on a B engine to make static timing it simpler and verify TDC. easy to achieve with the head off
     
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  10. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,089

    johnneilson
    Member

    Winduptoy,

    If it works for you it is good to go!! no worries!
    I have been working on distributors lately, there is so much difference between flathead configuration and OHV it can make your head swim. The other issue I see are distributors that are just plain worn out or someone at some time, well, just wasn't thinking.
    There were some Mallory 4 cyl distributors on eBay about a month ago, easy to modify to the "A,B" motors. Sometimes just starting with something new makes all the difference.

    John, dry sump is the only way to go, the pumps get expensive but offset the work to make a pan or worst.
    My latest monster actually picked up 4 1/2" clearance under the motor complete with windage scrapers and no external plumbing to the scavenge pumps. One last note about dry sump, if you actually pull vacuum on the crankcase you can make a few more HP.

    John
     
  11. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here is a dust cap that will work on an A hub. Have to make the stock washer smaller. 1587938262256.jpeg IMG_20200426_154659937.jpeg

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  12. murf 32
    Joined: May 30, 2013
    Posts: 63

    murf 32
    Member

    Got my engine running a lot better put in new condenser and adjusted the timing. 90% there.
    Thank you Gentleman for your help
    Keep safe
    Murf
     
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  13. I absolutely agree with you, John Neilson! For reliable lubrication (and COOLING) of hi-performance engines a Dry Sump system is perfect. As mentioned the system I used on my old race car has glaring flaws: The total height of the engine is too much, limiting ground clearance and raising the Center of Gravity. The advantages of the system are: the oil is kept away from the spinning crankcase (greater power as RPM increases); volume of oil in reserve can be increased as much as 50% (less aeration and more cooling) and volume and pressure, which is adjustable is distributed evenly to all bearing surfaces! I'm able to accomplish this through one single stage pump. It's from Stock Car Products. A component cooling pump (SCP #101). As I've indicated, it's driven by a Gilmer Belt off the crank. We had to fabricate a bracket to hang the pump and a drive mandrel on the crank. Because I'm not going to build this system again I sent the hard copies of my design to "Bluto" over ten years ago. Any images I saved went with a computer crash shortly after that! But for those who want to put such a system together: "It's NOT rocket science"!
     
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  14. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 342

    guitarguy
    Member

    Does any one see anything wrong with mounting my Model A carb way down by the framerail and making an intake tube going all the way up to my Frontenac head? The reality is the height is probably 5" - 6" higher than a stock model T carb that sits in about the same proximity height wise near the frame. Space is kind of at a premium on this side of the engine so not much choices here. I was trying to stay away from using a fuel pump and mounting the carb higher to keep it more traditional. Just wondering what the thoughts on a long intake tract like that might do performance wise.

    Speedster project 115.1.jpg
    Speedster project 116.jpg

    Speedster project 117.2.jpg
     
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  15. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,089

    johnneilson
    Member

    John,
    yes, the motor is just too tall in vertical orientation, I love those old Indy roadsters with the laid over motors.
    I made my last one mount the pump directly off the scavenge plate assy, and use HTD type belts.
    I am afraid those pictures are gone forever, I miss Bluto, Jim had the right experience and background here.

    stay safe, John
     
  16. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't have anything in my experience that could say good or bad. But thinking about it, I don't know why not especially if you don't want to pressure feed it other than gravity. One way to find out
    Linkage will be fun

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  17. Gary in MN
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 120

    Gary in MN
    Member

    Hi guitarguy: I have posted two pictures.... one picture is of a 1918 Model T with a Rajo 4 Valve that now belongs to winduptoy. I ended up with two NH carbs, a 6 volt fuel pump and a Holley pressure regulator.
    The next picture is one of my attempts to locate a Model A carb low enough in order not to run a pump. The intake is a Winfield intake flipped upside down and added a tube to allow gravity to supply fuel to carb.
    This did work, however while driving the engine started to loose power and would shut off. Coast to the side of the road and check under the hood. There was a liquid coming out of the carb, thinking it was a float problem I turned off the fuel. It turned out to be mostly water.
    Long story short the intake tube had a lot of frost on the outside, and there is enough frost to close up the intake tube and shut off the engine. Once some of the engine heat warmed the intake and all the frost melted I started the car and drove home and water once again ran out of the carb.
    You can draw air/fuel that far but without carb heat you may run into problems. Gary in MN DSC00910.JPG DSC01593 (1024x576).jpg
     
  18. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,079

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    my only question is : will it be able to draw sufficient air (updraft) .
     
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  19. poshdbs
    Joined: Feb 28, 2013
    Posts: 49

    poshdbs
    Member

    I thought that may happen Gary in MN. I have seen copper pipes coiled around manifolds to warm with engine coolant.
     
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  20. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 342

    guitarguy
    Member

    @Gary in MN , First off, THANK YOU for the great reply. I was wondering about the ice factor myself, as my stock T's will ice over without the heat shield intake in place. I guess I can hide an electric pump easy enough somewhere and run a carb up by the inlet of the head like I see so many used to--and still do. I wonder what they used to do for pumps way back when though. I know there were vacuum cans but I cant imagine everyone ran those. I know that had hand pumps---but wold it really push fuel up hill fairly consistently? Were there small electric pumps back then? I'm really trying my best to keep it 1935-ish era on the build.

    @V4F I too was wondering about the flow dynamics of the tube.

    I appreciate any input, You all are the best, but don't think I gave this zero thought before posting. I like to reach an unreasonable conclusion before I post such non-sense and asking crazy questions.
     
  21. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 692

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    guitarguy, MG used electric fuel pumps at least as far back as 1932.
     
  22. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 398

    railcarmover

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  23. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 627

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    I know that had hand pumps---but wold it really push fuel up hill fairly consistently?

    @guitarguy,

    I'm running a hand pump, and it works surprisingly well. I think the main thing is to have the system as airtight as possible. I've also heard of old timers using exhaust to pressurize the tank. Sounds dangerous until you think about it. Not much O2 in exhaust.
     
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  24. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 342

    guitarguy
    Member

    @rwrj , LOL, a friend of mine just mentioned the exhaust pressurizing deal. How often are you pumping to pressurize it? I assumed you were using gravity feed or a electric pump.
     
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  25. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,679

    Bigcheese327
    Member

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  26. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,260

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    We used to use the fuel pump on the Ford flatties to pressurize the tank, so if you had a "B" block with either a flathead or pushrod conversion, the original fuel pump could be used to pressurize the tank. It wouldn't be that difficult to come up with something similar for almost any application.
     
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  27. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 627

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    I can run about 10 or 15 minutes before I have to fool with it, if I start at 3 psi. My carbs run fine down to 1psi. It changes a bit depending on how full the tank is. It'll run for much longer if it's almost empyty, because there's so much air volume. I have to pump every few minutes on a full tank, but it only takes a few pumps to catch me back up, whereas a nearly empty tank takes a lot of pumping. It's a trade-off.
     
  28. kippmw
    Joined: Aug 9, 2012
    Posts: 3

    kippmw
    Member
    from Aurora, CO

    Hi guys, I've been lurking here for a while now, but thought I'd go ahead and introduce myself. My name is Matt. I grew up around Model A's, taught to work on them by my Dad and Grandpa. Now that they're gone, I take care of my 30 Coupe and 29 Fordor. They're both stock body, but we've always appreciated hopping them up. During the quarantine I finally decided to replace the Weber on the fordor with a more correct looking dual updraft setup. So far, I'm really happy with the throttle response and power. The engine has insert bearings, touring cam, oversize intake valves, and a 5.9 Brumfield head. 93930449_10105988829384893_8119939709527916544_o.jpg 13047955_10102762052297043_5245628224676300418_o.jpg
     
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  29. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,950

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nice and room with power now for your friends. Thanks for sharing
     
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  30. One of those things that makes the inter webs the best. Found a set of original Firestone wheels for the T, but the rims are a tad rough...you might be able to shave with them. Posted for help over on the AACA forum, a gentleman sends me a name and a number. Place a call, a week later and I have 4 good rims. Wow. 20 years ago and you might have spent 20 years looking.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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