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Technical ***April 2018 Banger Meet - Don't Be Fooled Into More than 4***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Mar 31, 2018.

  1. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,565

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Steve
    John got it right. I replied earlier but it didn't post???? was on my mobile device so lets try this
    The relief is set to open at 52 psig and close at 45
    The pump is a Model A pump fit with V8 pump gears, not a modified V8 pump to fit an A.
    Less machine work and the kind that I am capable of.
    The V8 gears from the '36-'48 are the same diameter as the A gears and fit in the A pump case.
    They are taller than the A gears=more volume, hence the spacer sandwiched between the pump body and end plate to accommodate them. Just another way to skin the cat

    Like your engine and see what you did to pressurize the A or that is what I think I'm seeing

    Larry
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  2. Quick question...what would be a reason for a banger block to NOT have an engine number stamped on the pad???
    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  3. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,783

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Replacement engines were shipped from the factory with a blank boss so that the dealer could stamp the same number. My engine number was ground off by the seller so he could use the original pink slip number for a street rod.
     
  4. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 811

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Replacement block?
     
  5. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 811

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    Denis, I think we must've been typing at same time.
     
  6. One less detail to have to explain.............

    You did a nice job restoring the cast surface after grinding it off.
     
  7. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    I don't have near that pressure . pump is steady always the same pressure . I run a heavy oil , pressure at idle is 18-20#
    when warm it has 22-24 as oil warms . "A" block / crank , v8 oil pump . balanced , aluminum rods & ross pistons .
    "B" type cam . lion 3 head @ 7-1 , weber , header . t-5 trans & small quick change rear / coil overs . just a great lil car to run around town . daily driver
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  8. Brett, there is a chemical process that the police use to find "removed" serial numbers- might be worth a try?
     
  9.  
  10. @62pan I didn't know that little fact! But now I have another dilemma...I have no flywheel housing!

    Some other oddities...the oil pan stops at the rear main, no lower flywheel housing. Also, the cam has a fuel pump lobe, but I don't see a boss for a fuel pump.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Could the dealer/factory have supplied a replacement A block fitted with a B crank and cam?

    HAMB investigation starts.....NOW!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  11. Just found this statement on fordgarage.com...

    Beginning in August 1932, complete Model A service block engines were all fitted at the Rouge with Model B camshafts and push rods (tappets), according to the Engine Production Foreman's records. This feature carried forward into diamond block production.

    So I guess it IS possible to have an A (service) block with a B camshaft. Now what about the B counterweighted crankshaft?!?!
     
    Dannerr likes this.
  12. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.



    ******* the cops use an acid to bring out the numbers . muriatic acid I think . I got familiar with that when I was riding with a M/C club ...........
     
  13. rally1
    Joined: Oct 25, 2009
    Posts: 129

    rally1
    Member

    V4F,
    Are you running pressure to the rod bearings, via drilled crank.
    Hard to tell from the pic.
     
  14. Couple of questions surrounding the upgrading of oil systems on a model T.

    Rhetorical opener: Splash lube works great up until what rpm range? a wise gentlemen said about 3k rpm. Either way, planning on passing that number. Full pressure mains and rods, easy enough it seems. Have built 1 pressure main system, this time will have the crank drilled. The system was driven by a VW pump off the back of the cam. Going to go with a front driven, exterior mounted pump, off the front plate are. Planning on a side drive mag for ignition.

    This brings me to the problems of reducing all that splashing oil:

    1. How will the wrist pins get oil?
    2. How will the piston skirts get oil?
    3. How to get oil to the lifter valley?
    4. How to get oil to the cam bearings?
    5. How to get oil to the timing gears?

    Last motor:

    1. Oil pump driven off the back of the cam. Lost prime, turns out that I missed some spacers. Didn't like it anyways.
    2. Oil pick up at the bottom of the T pan, below flywheel.
    3. Oil pressure relief valve by pass was run straight to the timing gears, seemed logical.
    4. Camshaft: last engine, ran a cut down A cam straight in the T block with no bearings.
    5. Metric shit ton of fab and patience to get the oil line into the existing holes on the top of the bearings, rather than tap the bottom of the main caps for the oil feed in. Not easy, major PITA. Compression fittings everywhere.
    6. Babbitt.

    On a T motor, the rotating assembly, fly wheel and transmission all live in the same oil. So there will still be a lot of oil moving about.

    New motor:

    1. Insert bearings.
    2. Aux. deep sump with the oil pick up in the bottom, carefully baffled and a scraper/windage tray.
    3. Connector line between the bottom of the pan (flywheel) and the sump at the height of the low oil (~3") petcock to ensure there is always oil in the bottom of the pan to fling around to get the trans and provide a constant volume in the bottom of the sump to keep the pick up submerged.
    4. Front mounted oil pump w/ pick up from above sump.
    5. Where to take the oil from there and get it to the places that matter...

    Questions:

    1. What kind of pressure should I aim for?
    2. First stop is the mains, oil wedge probably will form better if feed comes in from the top and not the bottom. How important? Everyone seems to tap the main caps...but if everyone is jumping off a cliff, do you follow?
    3. After the mains are fed, should the cam come before or after the pressure relief?
    4. Sprayers for piston skirts?
    5. Aux. scavenge/storage tank, kinda like a dry sump system. Mount up high. Stupid idea?
    6. Solder or compression fittings?

    Thanks.
     
  15. The rear main looks to be large bearing, ala "B", the cam had something riding on the FP lobe and there is a shadow next to it that looks like the FP hole.
    Also, the rear flange of the pan looks suspect, not sure though.
    If memory serves, the "B" motor has 2.75 CL spacing on the main bolts, you can measure with a yardstick to tell.

    J
     
  16. Here's a pic of the knife-edge on the pan....Maybe this will shed some light.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And thanks for pointing out the "rub" on the FP lobe. I'll get back to it in a day or so to check for the FP boss and cap bolt spacing.
     
  17. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,565

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What does the side cover look like? Another clue..oil return

    Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.


    yes full pressure . crank drilled . I have better pix I could send you .........
     
  19. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 404

    Jiminy
    Member

    ... or you could post them here.
     
    fur biscuit likes this.
  20. Andrew Mccann
    Joined: Aug 2, 2016
    Posts: 236

    Andrew Mccann
    Member
    from Bristol UK

    Hats off for taking a T block that far.
    For me, the 3k limit was always to help protect the Babbitt not the limiting factor of the lubrication but if you’re running inserts then no problem.
    I think the T splash system is so effective with the flywheel there would be no need for full pressure
    What crank and rods will you use?
    What RPM are you after?
     
  21. 5280A2
    Joined: Sep 8, 2014
    Posts: 128

    5280A2

    That's a B pan with the bottom of the flywheel housing removed. An A pan has a bolt on each side of the main cap in the rear rail. Also an A block doesn't have the rearmost bolt hole that is shown in your photo of the block on the pallet with the pan in place. It looks to me like both those holes are drilled and tapped so I am voting B block is what you have there.
     
  22. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    if its been cut you should be able to tell . to me most looks like an "A"


    ** ... or you could post them here. ............ takes a lot of band width . ill see ........... thanks
     
    Jiminy likes this.
  23. Looks like a B block to me. Fuel pump boss appears to be blocked off. You can just see part of the bolt threads on the inside of the block.
     
  24. Great modification! My block had an oil pressure system with the original pump...
    Question! Your pump is capable to catch the oil down there? My system redirect the oil through pipes to the mains, so may be more volume is dessirable...

    Sent from my SM-G610M using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  25. Ohh! Yes... I'm sorry was thinking that the original brass cup were positioned at the bottom... A little more down, my mistake!

    Sent from my SM-G610M using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  26. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,565

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes it's upside down....

    Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    ratamahata likes this.
  27. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    just a thought on the "no id" motor . any chance it could be a "gaza" motor (Russian) ?
     
  28. @V4F I guess anything is possible, but this came from a collection (read "pile") I purchased in eastern NC that came from Maryland. My guess is B block after all the incredible insight I have received here. I'l be going back to look for the FP boss. If it's there, I'll be carting it home to do a teardown and have it checked for cracks.
     
  29. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    good luck & I'm sure you will figure it out
     
  30. G Baese
    Joined: Jul 30, 2013
    Posts: 23

    G Baese
    Member

    Weren't the B blocks unstamped and instead the number was stamped on the flywheel housing?
     
    jerseyboy, winduptoy and Crazydaddyo like this.

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