Like the title says, have any of you had experiences (positive or negative) spraying a base coat on a vehicle, applying vinyl graphics and then clear coating the car? In essence burying the graphics under the clear? Is there a trick to it? Is the clear to "hot" for the vinyl and cause it to react? Will the curing process effect the vinyl? I have cleared over gold leaf and one shot without issue but never stick on graphics. So let's say you are building a drag car and had lettering, graphics, decals, whatever and wanted to protect them from the elements and not have to wax around them, how would you go about it? I suppose I could get samples of vinyl graphics and do a panel shoot. Other ideas or will this just not work?
Motorcycle companies do it all the time on their tanks but I would assume they are using decals specifically designed for this. My concern is who knows what the decal material you are getting is and how it will react to the clear without trying it first if they are not specifically designed for this type of use. If I was using a firebird decal from a reputable dealer I would have no issues doing it if I was getting them from the local sign shop I would 100% do a test first.
Bill, My '37 Austin has vinyl graphics and I've washed and waxed them for over decade without any issues. Not sure you need a clear over them unless it's just to bury them in the clear coat? Might call Signs Now on 118th & Sandy in East Portland and talk to Chris. I've worked with him a several times and he's always great at answering questions. He might be able to tell you for sure.
Good answers all. I will call and talk to Chris. I called the graphics manufacturer and he said he would recommend applying a tack coat (or lighter) to the graphics before flowing a coat on. He said the heat of the hardeners can be an issue if you just dump on a coat of clear.
Decals move. They expand and contract. I would have some concern about that. The clear might stop it or peel because of that.
Way back when, we made decals out of magazine pictures by clearing them. If the print was good enough, we would soak the paper off the back and it would leave a decal that could be applied and clear coated over. Pin stripes were frequently cleared over both vinyl and painted. But a lot has changed in paint technology since the 70s.
Best chance: dust on a couple coats of clear, to seal the vinyl, before spraying wet. (Personally, I wouldn't do it. Vintage race cars were originally hand painted. Any texture is part of the story.)
Back in the 70’s we clear coated everything with Imron. I know I’m lucky to still be above ground. Clear coat is a Crap Shoot. Imron was applied over Works of art ...Stunning Pieces of Creativity buy some of ...well...some of the Craziest Artists ,Drug Induced shit I ever seen. I can’t believe the talent some people have, and I had the pleasure to spray over it with Imron. Some would last a year, then peel off. Some stayed ,some didn’t. Harley Choppers, Honda Choppers, Kawasaki Choppers, Monte Carlos, bedroom furniture, office furniture, Statues...if we look around, clear coat has peeled off just about everything, everything year, forever. Go for it!
Ferrari does this with the 360 Stradale stripes, a decal that's cleared over. I'd prefer a paint, but considering the time and effort, I can see why alternatives are considered. As you yourself mention, a test panel with the materials you plan on is the best way to confirm compatibility.
My brother bought an OT (Square body) truck 20+ years ago. The previous owner, an acquaintance, had the truck painted and then vinyl pinstripe applied along the body lines, then clear coated over top. Over time the clear failed from the pinstriping and ruined the whole thing other than the hood and roof which weren't striped. It was the reason the truck got parked (and why my brother got a great deal on a rare-optioned truck). I'm sure there's a way to do it for some things, but I personally wouldn't trust it.
how would I go about it? I'd get the car lettered by someone who knows their way around One-Shot, and then park the car inside when I'm not driving it. No clear coat needed. Ten years later, it still looks fine.
Most vinyl signage is just like a special cut bumper sticker. The material is flexible, and the adhesive is too. Not meant to harden or dry out. If you trap it under a candy coating it will haunt you later.
Bandit Billy, The failure point of adherence will be the decal to the underlying paint. No amount of clear coat will prevent the decal from lifting off the paint, IF the decal adhesive fails. Weather the bond of the clear to the decal is sufficient won't matter if the decal adhesive fails, this may not show up for an extended period of time. What will happen "WHEN not IF" the clear coat shrinks? Same process as painting over poor body work, it will look good, even great right after the paint job. However once the paint/clear is fully cured(finished shrinking) all those flaws are visible. Only you can answer if the rewards out ways the risk?
Something I sk myself on the golf course regularly. And you are correct, it is not worth the risk. In this particular scenario, the car is not an indoor garaged vehicle, likely will never be. Subject to sun, tree sap, tree branches and weather extremes. I thought the clear would protect the graphics, I think it is better to put them on last after reading these responses. It can be hard enough to get a good paint job to lay down and adhere, I don't need additional failure opportunities. Thanks all for your input.
Years ago I had some buddies that had a custom paint & body shop and they offered to do a quickie scuff and paint on my '54 Ford for me for a few hundred bucks and some beer, about 2 days before 2004 Lonestar Rod & Kustom Roundup. I was helping them with the prep & masking, they sprayed the first coats of candy clear down and I ran off to get some beer and cash at the ATM. When I came back about 30 minutes later, I was surprised to see that they had applied their die-cut vinyl graphic of their business name on the roof above the rear window, and buried it in the clear... all without my approval. I was a little upset, but it really wasn't too noticeable with the gold & silver metal flake, and since this was a beater and not a well-prepped paint job, I got over it quickly. I sold the car about 2 years later, and then it popped up about a year ago on FB marketplace. It looked a bit different and worse for wear, but I was sure it was my old car so I asked the seller to send me a picture showing the rear of the roof, and sure as shit the vinyl decal was still covered under the clear, but the candy clear had faded and the deep red flaked roof was more of a dull maroonish color. Anyway, yes, you can bury the graphic under the clear.
I would not apply vinyl over basecoat, single stage or clear coat yes but not basecoat. I’ve worked around vinyl, usually OEM that for one reason or another I have had to clear over. I’ve never had any problems with durability. I have seen it done on street rod type gassers trying to make the paint look like glass.
There is a difference between vinyl and decals. Decals have glue. Vinyl that is squeegeed on does not. I am not a painter but have seen plenty of vinyl painted over. Your results may vary.....
In Arizona, we expect any vinyl graphics that sit out in the sun to start to look like crap by 5 years....the only way to prevent it is to keep it the shade.
I asked Chris about how long wraps, or vinyl decals last if a vehicle is outside all the time? He told me they generally last about a decade if they're in the elements 24/7. I figured since my Austin is inside more than outside I'll outlive the vinyl graphics. Chris made up stencils for me so I could paint the lettering on my '39 Chev! I wanted to have it lettered, but after contacting 4 different local pinstripers to ask about doing it not a single one came through! They all either didn't call back, or just stopped responding after one conversation. Chris came through quickly with a design he sent me to approve, and then stencils to help me hand letter the car myself. And a price that was very reasonable too!
I don't know if this will help or not. I had a vinyl shift pattern made and then buried in 8-10 coats of rattle can clear. been holding up well for the past 5 years.
As a point of interest, when you paint the car, get a small piece of similar metal and stick a couple decals on it.....then spray the clear over it as a test piece. You might even try putting some clear on half the panel and then embedding a decal in the clear (using it for glue as well as the decals glue) and another decal directly to metal with clear over it. Add a date on the plate so you won't forget when you did it. Then sit it out in the weather and see what happens as time goes by. This question will come up again sometime in the future.........and you'll know if you did the right thing!
As a guy who works in the sign industry, I can say while this statement has some truth to it, it is not 100% correct. It's a lot more complicated than that. There are so many variables and so many different types of decals and vinyl. Vinyl has adhesive on it, and most decals now are just printed on vinyl. There are varying types, grades, applications, etc. so not all are created equal. Shitty old decals and vinyl will have some shrinkage and cracking, but that is largely due to the material not being UV resistant, among other things. Most modern vinyl will not shrink. Look at the OEM stripes, and graphics packages on cars from the 1970's-current....those vinyl graphics don't shrink. If you use your wife's Cricut craft sticker maker kit thing to make a decal...it's not going to be a high quality vinyl. If you go to a sign shop and tell them what you're doing, they'll sell you the correct type of vinyl for your needs.
I have seen you car and just thought those were painted on. Looks great. I talked to a couple painters that provide me tech support and they said they would not do it if asked. The said it "could" work but the "Could not" far outweighed any convenience it might provide.
No. The screaming eagle is applied on top with the rest of the stripe kit. That kit is horrible to apply btw.
The Jalopy Journal
