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Technical Anyone swedge lug studs anymore?!

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Pete Poling, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    Does anyone know of someone who could press new studs in one of my juice brake rear drums? During the sandblasting process I didn’t realize I blasted the threads off so fast forward to now, rear brakes are together, drums are turned and painted all ready to go together and I notice this..... I can probably get the old ones out with the hole saw method but putting them back in is a different story. I actually noticed that on one of my front drums the stud is welded to the drum itself. I know the tool is out there but I figured I would ask! IMG_4898.JPG IMG_4895.JPG IMG_4894.JPG IMG_4896.JPG


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  2. Blasted the threads off??
     
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  3. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,140

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't think those bad threads are a result of sandblasting.
     
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  4. Jack E/NJ
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 597

    Jack E/NJ
    Member
    from NJ

    I think you only blasted the rust off of what was left of the thoroughly rusted threads. Any Meineke brake shop can remove and swage in new ones. Jack E/NJ
     
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  5. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    For what it’s worth it was a industrial sandblaster.... not a harbor freight unit.
    The stud with threads was me using a thread chaser trying to get them back with poor results.


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  6. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,574

    Slopok
    Member

    Probably gonna need some new lug nuts as well eh???:rolleyes:
     
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  7. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,973

    rusty rocket
    Member

    I think I would drill it out and just tack weld a new one in place. That's what I had to do on a set of wide fives for the latest project.
     
    Pete Poling likes this.
  8. Not trying to hijack your thread, but I have a similar situation.
    My Econoline (64) has good studs but are too short to use aluminum
    wheels, Tork Thrust Ds.
    Can I cut the studs flush and drill or press what's left out.
    I'm sure I can press new longer studs back in.
    Am I missing something here?
     
  9. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    That’s the direction I think I’m gonna go


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  10. Chief 64
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 158

    Chief 64
    Member

    There are places on line that have thousands of lug nuts.... I am sure they have a lug nut for a Ford with Torq Thrust wheels.
     
  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,583

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @Pete Poling ....There is no need to sweat the swaging. I replaced all the studs in a set of early Ford hubs. I used a heavy wall impact socket to support the hub, while pressing the stud out. The swages are not very strong and simply peel off the stud, leaving a clean hole in the hub.

    From there, I selected a Dorman Products wheel stud from their extensive catalog that had a serrated section that would be about a .012"/.015" interference fit in the hub stud hole and a 1/2"-20 threaded section long enough to fit the wheels I wanted to use. Then pressed them into the hub in the same manner as the old ones were removed...i.e. supported the hub with the heavy socket while pressing the stud.

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
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  12. 62SY4
    Joined: Oct 30, 2009
    Posts: 86

    62SY4
    Member
    from Irwin, Pa

    For what it's worth, the swage cutter is available from Goodson for about $100.

    Snyder's antiques sells a similar tool, also about $100. They also have the tool to swage the new studs in.

    I think your studs were fubar before blasting, you can still make out the turned face on the drum... Industrial shot blast or not it wouldn't have selectively destroyed your threads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  13. Well you were right Chief 64, I just went out in the snow and took off a stock
    Ford lug nut, ran a tap through it and it comes flush when snugged up on the
    aluminum wheel.
    I guess I wanted the stud to protrude through the lug nut at least an 1/8"-1/4".
    The nice chrome lug nuts I got from Summit had 1/4" more thread and just didn't
    look right (safe).
    Thanks...
     
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  14. error404
    Joined: Dec 11, 2012
    Posts: 279

    error404
    Member
    from CA

    I'd say that's definitely not from the sandblasting, although I'll caveat that with the fact that I've never dealt with high powered sandblasters before.

    One of them looks like it was rusted up (maybe that one didn't have a nut on it for a long time?) and the others look like they were just cross-threaded or possibly way over-tightened (to many ugga-duggas on the air gun!), as they threads are only boogered up to a certain distance down the stud.

    I don't know if this applies to vehicles other than Jeeps, but my 46 Willys originally had left handed lug studs on one side, and right handed on the other. It can be very easy to forget about that when trying to remove the lugs nuts. It's possible they were over tightened by someone before you who was actually trying to remove them! Before I replaced the old axles with stronger ones, I scribed an L and an R on the brakes so that I would know which way they went.

    I was trying to remove a mechanical radiator fan on a jeep once, and unbeknownst to me the fan threads were NOT the same direction as the original should have been. We pulled and pulled on the nut until the threads broke free and were stripped. The correct replacement had the correct direction threads, the one we removed (broke) did NOT! :) I think the same could happen to lug studs.

    I've not set studs in pre-war axles or brakes, but on more modern ones you can set them by using a lug nut and a stack of washers (with alot of anti-seize on the threads and nut for lube). Removing them can be done with a heavy hammer or an air hammer, but is best with a hydraulic press.


    On a side note, I've more recently taken the habit of cleaning the threads (both the studs and the nuts) with thread chasers if I notice any resistance when taking the nuts off. if I can't free-spin them with my fingers, I'll wire brush them and chase the threads once the nuts are removed. If the nuts are loose feeling after chasing, I replace them. Sometimes a bit of dirt or rust or whatever gets in there and will start to booger up the threads.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  15. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 742

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    Lots of cars from the 30's to about 1970 had lefties on the drivers side.
    Fords, BOP, Studebaker, Mopars, International PU, maybe Packard's, Hudson's and others.
    I've head that Chrysler had a team of mad scientists in a locked room in St Louis
    to dream up tricks like that. Left hand wheel studs were one of their crowning accomplishments.
    After being away from Mopars for many years I obtained a really nice old Dodge and decided to rotate the wheels. I cranked on the drivers side and thought that someone had over tightened them so- out came the Ingersoll and I promptly broke 2. Then I remembered that they were Lefty's. I reversed the impact and the rest came off nicely. Went to the passengers side and broke another! Got to reverse the wrench dummy!
     
  16. 327Eric
    Joined: May 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,514

    327Eric
    Member
    from Diablo Ca.

    I took mine to a machine shop, and picked it up the next day. No problem.
     
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  17. nochop
    Joined: Nov 13, 2005
    Posts: 1,721

    nochop
    Member
    from norcal

    Hammer time
     
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  18. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,368

    manyolcars

    the Model A guys on Fordbarn can tell you all you need to know but dont weld them in
     
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  19. Warpspeed
    Joined: Nov 4, 2008
    Posts: 532

    Warpspeed
    Member

    Just press the old studs out with a hydraulic press. Hammering probably won't work but a big press and maybe some heat will get them out.
    The new studs can be pulled through using a stack of washers and a wheel nut if you don't have a press handy to fit the new studs.
     
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  20. Pete Poling
    Joined: May 1, 2016
    Posts: 103

    Pete Poling
    Member

    I’m wondering how many of you guys think that this is just a simple stud replacement? If that was the case I wouldn’t be asking how to do it on here, and I don’t get why this is a debate on how the treads got damaged???? Anyone who knows these early ford brake parts should know that it’s not as simple as hammering out the old stud and using a stack of washers and nut to install the new one.
    IMG_4903.JPG


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  21. seabeecmc
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 994

    seabeecmc
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  22. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,583

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    For those advocating using a heavy hammer or air hammer, I hope you are doing that with the axle shafts removed from the housing. If not, consider the hammer blows being absorbed by the axle bearings and differential pin. Especially if you are changing more than one lug stud. Any labor time you saved not pulling the axles for stud replacement will be more than offset when the axle bearings fail prematurely. I realize the above does not directly apply to ‘48 and earlier Ford vehicles, but the subject has been generalized.

    “there is no such thing as a free lunch”

    Ray
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  23. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,298

    KJSR
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    Keep in mind that this is a public forum and not everyone is correct in what they post or reply with. You have to weed out the crap and know who to trust an answer from. @Hnstray provides pretty good advise IMO.

    I was able to learn something new from your pictures you posted so thanks for that.
     
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  24. Bob Lowry
    Joined: Jan 19, 2020
    Posts: 227

    Bob Lowry

    Here's a simple method that always worked for me. Hammer out the old stud, being careful not to hit
    the two next to it. I always use a little WD40 or similar to loosen the grip. You can even put the lug nut back
    on, turning it on for 2-3 turns, which will give your more surface area to strike.

    Once out, start your new stud in from the back, and using another lug nut turned backwards so that the flat
    surface lays up against the rotor, slowly tighten it which will draw it into the hub. Again, I use a little WD40
    on it to let it pull through easier.

    Have done this many times with 100% success.

    Bob
     
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  25. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 4,245

    Budget36
    Member

    Interesting on the swaging. I'd guess the real question would be can you install a stud that does not need to be swaged?
     
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  26. solidaxle
    Joined: Jan 6, 2011
    Posts: 481

    solidaxle
    Member
    from Upstate,NY

    NAPA by me has a good machine shop. They did mine. Not all NAPA's are equipped do preform that operation.
     
  27. Terraizer
    Joined: Jul 18, 2006
    Posts: 504

    Terraizer
    Member

    Pete Poling, thanks for the link, Ihc used swaged studs through the 1960's all ways wondered how it was done, now i know thanks to your link.
     
  28. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 4,182

    sloppy jalopies
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    for 24 years at GE we called that sweadged… never figured out their spelling...
    sorry forgot the d... but they used swea not swa …
    they really hammered steel flat bars with huge 'shake the floor" presses before they machined them... print said swea ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  29. Look for an old established truck shop, they should have a swage kit to tackle almost anything.
     
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  30. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 473

    KenC
    Member

    I may be wrong...again, but it is my understanding that the only reason for swaging studs was to keep the drum positioned on the hub. Not much experience here with pre-48 Ford stuff, mostly Mopar. They used that tapered axle for years with swaged studs on the hub/drum. Nothing wrong with it, except they made brake work harder than needed.

    My solution, right or wrong, is to press the studs out using a very good support behind the drum/hub to prevent warping it. I've also cut and ground the stud with a cutoff and grinding burr before pressing. But it's not always necessary. When putting it back together, drill, tap and countersink 2 or three locations to accept flathead machine screws to retain the drum. Be sure the countersinks are deep enough the keep the wheel from touching the screw head. Measure the old stud holes and search the Dorman catalog for press in studs that have the proper serrated area diameter, thread length etc. On old Mopars there is a standard stud used by trailer makers that works. Press them in, or use washers/nuts/lube to get them installed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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