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Customs anyone bagged a full sized 60's Chrysler?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ozzies 57, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. ozzies 57
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 373

    ozzies 57
    Member

    I bought a 65 Chrysler Imperial (before you flag this-it is the same body style as a 64 imperial so as per the rules is fine to talk about on this site). I want to flake the roof, leave the patina body color and bag the crap out of it. SO I am looking for a solid (but reasonably priced), set up that will put this boat on the ground (fairly quickly) and yet still be solid to hold its 5000 lb. frame when rolling on the freeway.
    so if you have done one, or know of a business with a good set up or kit, please respond and any links would be greatly appreciated.
    Ozzie
    imperial.jpg
     
    LongLiveFlathead6 likes this.
  2. raidmagic
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,432

    raidmagic
    Member

    No help but cool looking car. Good luck with it.
     
  3. ozzies 57
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 373

    ozzies 57
    Member

    found a place that sells an airride set up airbags.com they have a kit fro a 63-75 newport. were newport and imperials on the same frame set up in 65???
     
  4. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,868

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I haven't been out hunting old full sized boats in a while so I haven't bagged one recently :D
     
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  5. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,536

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    With torsion bars on the front, and leaf springs on the rear, a cheap air bag kit will be unlikely. You could just lower the torsion bar adjusting screws on the front and put blocks between the axle and springs and get it down to about 3" off the ground. Gene
     
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  6. ozzies 57
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 373

    ozzies 57
    Member

    I would rather not have to have a set ride height that lowering blocks and torsion adjustments would leave me.
    so i guess I will call a few companies and see what they think....any reputable airbag companies out there that will give me a legit answer, not just sell me their kit?
     
  7. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 13,945

    Squablow
    Member

    '65 model year is allowable on the HAMB main board, just not in the classifieds.

    The Imperial is a totally different unit from the Newport, Newport is a unibody car and the Imperial has a full frame although it is welded to the body. What they do have in common is they both run parallel leaf springs in the rear and torsion bars in the front.

    I can't imagine the amount of work it would take to put air suspension in a car like this, I've heard of people putting air bags on torsion bars but the travel is limited. If you're really serious, you'd probably have to build a 4 link for the rearend and put a front frame clip on from a coil spring/wishbone style IFS. It could be done, but you'd be talking several hundred hours of work. There is no "kit" to do that.

    Those Imperials are actually a nice looking car and often overlooked as customs. I personally would crank the bars down in front and add blocks in the rear and call that good for lowering, then a nice cleanup shave on the body and a solid color. Could be real nice.
     
  8. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,083

    town sedan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A static drop will prove how good a driver you are. Just a thought.
    -Dave
     
  9. ozzies 57
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 373

    ozzies 57
    Member

    thanks, that is the kind of info I needed.

    oz
     
  10. MengesTwinCustoms
    Joined: Oct 16, 2009
    Posts: 279

    MengesTwinCustoms
    Member

    I have seen a torsion bar Mopar with bags before, they took the torsion bar key out and added another strut on the front of the lower I arm. The bag was put on top of they upper A arm with a hoop over it. Didn't look to pretty with the bags up there but it worked!! Rear is easy but don't forget to add your subframe connecters.
    Another option is just putting a mustang ii or other clip on it
     
  11. LongLiveFlathead6
    Joined: Feb 20, 2015
    Posts: 49

    LongLiveFlathead6
    Member

    I understand that you only asked for bagging info, but I have to give another suggestion... Please suicide that rear door... It's very similar to the Lincoln and has the potential to be a bad ass four door... Good luck and I can't wait to see it draggin' frame!
     
  12. Insane 1
    Joined: Feb 13, 2005
    Posts: 973

    Insane 1
    Member
    from Ennis TX

    I bagged a 62 Chrysler wagon for a customer in about 1997. The biggest issue was the placement of the front shocks...there was NO room. But now prolly wouldn't be such an issue today as I've taught my self quite a few tricks since then.

    Customer still has it and has put over 100K miles on it since being bagged.
     
  13. ozzies 57
    Joined: Aug 28, 2006
    Posts: 373

    ozzies 57
    Member

    seems as though bagging it might be more of a hassle, then just dropping it 3-4 inches. is there any threads on lowering a torsion bar front suspension????
    the rear seems pretty easy.
    this is a low budget build. I am in the car $1300, and it will be up and running and driving by the end of feb. with no costs out of pocket (except a $20 fuel pump) . so blocks on back and some info on how to do the front and I'll posts some badass pictures soon
     
  14. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,536

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    The torsion bars are adjustable from the factory. Unless the bars have been cranked up a lot, 3-4" is a lot more then I would expect you will be able to get before the suspension is sitting on the frame. There is a bolt for each bar on each side of the frame. It may be at the rear of the torsion bar, on the trans crossmember, or they may be on the lower control are itself. Mopar moved the bar adjusting bolt in the early 60s from the rear to the front, don't know when (or if) they did the Imperial. Lowering the front end amounts to unscrewing the adjusting bolt, one turn makes a pretty big difference. Jack up the front end, and loosen both adjusting bolts the same amount. Set the car on the ground and bounce it a couple times before making more adjustments. I suggest a turn at a time. at some point, it will no longer lower the car, but you will want the bars to hold up the weight of the car, rather then the lower control arms resting on the frame supporting the cars weight. The car is heavy, if the control arms are resting on the frame with out the torsion bars supporting the weight, the control arms can bend. There is a bump stop between the lower control arm and the frame, you may have to cut it down or remove it.

    No need to worry about the frame connectors someone mentioned above, the Imperial is mounted on a heavy box frame. Also, the car is basically the same car from 1964 through 1966. Gene
     
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  15. mopar57
    Joined: Apr 24, 2012
    Posts: 68

    mopar57
    Member

    I bagged my 57 plymouth. I pulled the torsion bars and mounted the bag to the lower control arm and made a cup that fits inside the frame for the upper bad mount. I did have to trim the frame so the bag didn't rub. On the rear I ran two bars across the frame above the Axel and used that for the upper bag mounts and made a plate for the lower bag mounts on the Axel and also incorporated the 4 link mounts into that bag mount. I used 2500 lb bags in front and 2600lb bags in the rear.
     
  16. This thread has some good info.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/air-bagging-a-torsion-bar-front.292348/

    As stated, I think the rear would be best done with a 4-bar setup. You Mopar guys tell me if I am off base, but could you use the torsion bars as link rods, put a bearing at the back end to support the bar, and weld brackets to it that create a rocker to support the air bag. The air bag of course would be tied on the other end to the frame. As stated there are a bunch of mini-trucks running around with this type of setup, but I won't sully the HAMB by posting a pic.

    [​IMG]

    That being said. To do it right, certainly won't be "CHEAP", and nor should it. The suspension is absolutely critical to the safety of the car. By time you are done fabricating everything and buying bags, pumps, valves, etc, I could easily see having double what you payed for the car into it, and twice again that amount if you pay some one else to do it.
     
  17. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,536

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    On a Mopar, the lower control arm is essentially a lever mounted on a rubber bushing. The rubber bushing has a stud mounted on one end that connects to the front cross member through 2 two machined holes spaced about 3" apart with lock nut on the end of the stud. This stud holds the lower control arm onto the frame. Opposite of the stud is a machined collar attached to the lower control arm, this collar has a hex shape inside dissemination much like a deep well socket. There is a bolt on stabilizer strut that connects towards the outward end of the lower control arm and connects to the frame forward of the control arm. The purpose of the strut rod is to control forward and rearward movement of the lower control arm during braking. The torsion bar is a spring bar with a hex head on each end indexed the same. The anchor point at the rear of the torsion bar also has a machined collar with the hex head shaped inside diameter that is open at the rear for bar removal. That end is part of the transmission cross member. On one end of the torsion bar, the hex head socket had a lever attached and fits into a captured area with an adjusting bolt. Modern cars (mid 60s through the late 70s, the cross torsion bar cars of the late 70 & 80s have a different setup) have the adjustment end on the control arm, earlier versions (57-mid 60s) had the adjuster on the rear anchor point.

    For a theory, lets assume we are designing a new torsion bar mounting system for an air bag addition. We can, essentially mount a lower control arm on both ends of the bar. The front lower control arm is mounted to the front suspension in the normal way. The rear control arm would pivot the same direction as the front control arm (be a mirror image, if you will) and would need to be mounted in the crossmember, it also would have to have some form of forward and rear ward stabilizer rod. This rear control arm could have an air bag can be placed between the outer end of the arm and the bottom of the car. Of course, the upper and lower bag holders would have to have the proper bracing.
    Both control arms, in theory, would have the same amount of pivot. The bar at this point would only be used as a connecting point. Unfortunately, the bar would still have the ability to twist, now uncontrollably, in both directions, because the anchor point has now become resistant to moving in only one direction, unless we can limit or eliminate the bag end downward movement. The bar will still twist as it supports the weight of the car. We will also have to compensate for the amount of movement we get from the torsion bar loading and unloading under the weight of the car, and the amount of deflect we will get from the bag supporting the weight of the car. Adjustments can be made by offsetting the angles the control arms are in relation to each other, and shocks will help much movement, but those adjustments will be a lot of trial & error.

    The next new problem we have created is that now we have to have room for the bag, mounting brackets, and space to allow the rear control arm to move. The cross member will be about the lowest point on the car, so any space needed for all that stuff will have to be between the height of the crossmember and space above the current floor pan. The length of the torsion bar can not be adjusted. That will require a new crossmember be fabricated so the control arm and air bags can be mounted, and we need to add a transmission mounting point to that crossmember. The current trans crossmember is directly under the front of the front seat, so the new crossmember will be about at the center of the front seat. The seats are typically 2" above the floor pan at that point. How we accomplish that needed space under the seat will be a challenge.
    One other minor issue will be how we intend on getting the torsion bar in and out of our design. With the front and rear control arms mounting in a mirror image of each other, and the bar sitting in sockets on each side, to get the bar in and out, the rear control arm mounting system will need to be completely removable, and that removable control arm mounting point will have to be substantial enough to support more then 2500 lbs between the 2 of them. Also, somehow this crossmember that will have to connect from frame rail to frame rail, because the floor pan will not be strong enough to support this much stress.. I'm sure I'm missing something.
    Are we ready to start building yet? Gene
     

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