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anyone able to do 3D modeling with measurments?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by goldhunter_2, Jan 24, 2010.

  1. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    is there anyone out that that has the software to do 3D model for vehicles (31 chevy truck) and if so could yo tell me the name of the sofeware or could I talk you into drawing up my truck body?
     
  2. junkmonger
    Joined: Feb 9, 2004
    Posts: 653

    junkmonger
    Member

    SolidWorks, AutoCAD, 3-D Studio Max, there are a lot of CAD packages out there, but they're not cheap. It depends on what you want to do. If you just want drawings with dimensions, I would get an 'Education' version of AutoCAD. I think it runs about $300.
     
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 51,195

    squirrel
    Member

  4. nofin
    Joined: Jan 7, 2010
    Posts: 321

    nofin
    Member
    from australia

    All 3D modelling programs have measurements, that's how you put stuff in the right place in drawings. The easiest to use (I have found) is Rhino but if you want to print the drawings out to use for construction then it's not that good for that. All of the programs, autocad, solidworks, rhino etc have free evaluation versions that are good for a month or so, but they are usually quite expensive to buy the full version, I think autocad is about 3.5k. The education version is cheaper as previously mentioned but I think you need to be a teacher or registered student to buy it. If you want to model something you have already built then it's much easier to do it there where you can transfer the measurements straight into the computer, rather than tell someone else how to do it. Good luck!
     

  5. Turbocad cost me all of about $25 and it's afairly nice program with 3D capabililty.
     
  6. 61pv544
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 17

    61pv544
    Member
    from Denmark

    If you're just looking for something easy and simple, try out Google Sketchup. Works great for relatively simple stuff, easy to learn, and completely free! If you find out you need more, you can always go Pro, or get one of the expensive programs...

    I just modelled a complete layout of my house, took one afternoon, full 3D, and it looks great!
     
  7. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    ok update , I downloaded several different ones: sketch up , D something, autoCad, autodesk, plane-e , etc etc and apparently my computer learn curve is much slower then most people :( I just can't seem to draw a 3d model for my truck allot of the programs seem to have been geared for homes and buildings. I used to have one that was designed specifically for boat hulls and was easy to learn but the way this is going unless I find one specifically designed for trucks unfortunately I think doing the 3D modeling on the computer is going to be above my ability I'll have to stick with the old fashion method look at my picture and explain form there


    I wanted to say thanks to everyone for there input it was appreciated


    .
     
  8. McGuireV10
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 43

    McGuireV10
    Member
    from Jax,FL

    Nah, it isn't just you, 3D modeling is a pain in the ass. SketchUp is probably the easiest to learn, but the most limited, and unless they've changed it, using measurements is tedious at best, nearly impossible at worst (hence the word "sketch" in the name, I guess).
     
  9. Contact Brianangus here on the board, he is a master at 3D stuff
     
  10. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,703

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    Computer generated hotrod.Who would have ever thought this would happen?This world never ceases to amaze me.
     
  11. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    a guy has to have his priorities straight ...lol

    Building form my head is easy until I have to go to a shop to use someone's tools that I don't have then it takes longer to explain what I am doing then it does to make the part. I thought a 3D model would help do that
     
  12. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    thanks grits I'll pm him
     
  13. mikes51
    Joined: Oct 4, 2001
    Posts: 2,195

    mikes51
    Member

    I think for real world car building, you can't beat explaining your idea with a cardboard or a wire mockup.

    I'm retired now but I used to do 3d cad work. The original purpose of creating a 3d file of an object was so the file could be sent directly to a computer controlled milling machine. Or some other type of device that would grow the object out of liquid into a solid object.

    So in a way, 3dcad eliminates the communication between two people more so than enhances it, as you were expecting. Don't feel bad about not picking up 3d skills easily. Typically a professional designer would attend lengthy classes about how to use these programs.
     
  14. xerophobic
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 5

    xerophobic
    Member

    There is an education equivalant for Solidworks too FYI, free for 90 days I believe and while it may take you that long to figure it out there are a TON, and I do mean a ton, of tutorials etc online, youtube etc

    Its pretty easy to use once you understand the basics and those are covered well. My advice would be watch a bunch of tutorials before you even open the software so you can pay attention to the theory behind it before you distract yourself with trying to find commands etc Solidworks is heavy on "design intent" and this is important. Thinking of the "logic" of how to draw something before you just jump in and draw it. (all modelling softwares are I suppose)

    Unfortunatly what you want to do with it ultimatly isnt what I would classify as the "easy stuff" i.e complex surfaces etc So those will take some time to master.

    Start with easy solids; pistons, connecting rods, "doodads" sitting on your computer desk etc

    The thing about modelling stuff like this is once you start its easy to keep going, its extremely rewarding to see something in your head suddenly on a computer in 3D. Yes it will consume hours of your free time haha

    My only other comment is when compared to time spent trying to learn say Autocad, you will find the rewards are 1000 times greater with something like Solidworks. Ugh I cant even imagine drawing in 2D Autocad anymore lol

    Cheers

    (Pic is a model I drew about 2 weeks after starting to play with Solidworks. No its not perfect, yes it has flaws, yes I know how to fix them(now lol) but I wouldnt be able to draw such a thing in Autocad if i tried and even if I could it wouldnt be nearly as useful as being able to look at it from any angle as a "solid" object)
     

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  15. torchmann
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 787

    torchmann
    BANNED
    from Omaha, Ne

    I haven't learned how to yet. I can't get past the... complexity.
    I've installed several cad programs and what I get is a desktop and a toolbar with a gazillion icons sorted into layers of pop up app windows, and a "sheet of graph paper".
    I just sit there like [​IMG]
    "ummm. He he okay like...what do I do now?
    uhhh huh hu I dunno, lets go scrim some terrorists or something. he he counterstrike rules!"

    I have my system setup to dual boot. I can boot into Windows or Linux. there are alot of great free (free as in beer) applications that you can install from public repositories and try them out. The cad program the D.O.D uses is open source and I think it runs on windows. It's a free download but Again... it's a tool not a teacher. I don't know what to do with it to get from my blank faced mezmerization to the result I want to accomplish.
    Not to be too hard on myself but
    It's like when you give a monkee a wrench and he sniffs it and gives it a bite and walks away from it.
     
  16. -Jesse-
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 13

    -Jesse-
    Member

    The first question is how accurate representation do you need? And what do you need the model for? And body only?

    A not so realistic mockup like this
    [​IMG]

    Or a very realistic one like this
    [​IMG]

    I've been working with 3D for 10 years now (engineering stuff) and no matter what the software is, modeling an accurate sheet metal body isn't easy.

    For the bodywork modeling I also recommend Rhino (free), 3DS Max (very expensive) or Catia (very very expensive).

    Other (more or less costly) options are:
    - laser scanning a real body
    - buy the modelling from some 3D-company (lots of them online). Someone might even have that body model done already.
     
  17. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    xerophobic
    thanks I am downloading solid works now to try out

    -Jesse-
    * laser scanning a real body just isn't possible as far as I know there are no real 31 crew cab Chevy truck body's but there are a few ford crew cab but there are distencet body differences and that was one reason I like the chevy over the ford or dodge body style
    * buy the modelling from some 3D-company , well I did consider that but after speaking with someone who does it for a living he said I have to buy a stock body ship it to him to model plus large amount of $$$ and to be real honest that is way out of my budget ability so that is not a opinion for me
    *The first question is how accurate representation do you need? at least as accurate as your picture if not more I need to show the body specific characteristics for example the cab roof on your would show a hard chime/bend and flat angle form the top to the side where as i want to show a soft rounded chime like a original 31 chevy
    *what do you need the model for? I know what I want but I also know my little garage hobby shop doesn't have the proper tools to fabricate the body as nice as I want it to look so I need to work with a large local shop who lets me use the machines and help out to save me some money so I can get the sheet metal body fabricated right
    * body only? simple answer is yes . just the body with some amount of measurements shown would work. I would like to have a whole 3d overview drawing of the truck just so the guy at the shop understands where everything goes . the main purpose for the 3d modeling was so I can better explain to the guy at the shop in short time frame, I can see it in my head but explaining it to him is completely different and very time consuming
     
  18. -Jesse-
    Joined: Jul 22, 2005
    Posts: 13

    -Jesse-
    Member

    Ok, thanks goldhunter 2. My other linked picture (the more accurate model) doesn't seem to work anymore, but now that I know better what we are talking about, here are few more things that come to my mind. I hope these will help.

    1. Many years ago I tried to model a racecar (just for fun) which I was never able to finish. It took so much time that I gave up. But the softwares are much better now. I used modeling tutorials such as this:
    http://www.starrshaw.com/Tutorial/NurbsCar/3DTutorial.htm
    With google you can find hundreds more. They are very helpful and many of them are for the Rhino software which I recommended.

    2. I have a dream car which I want to have as a 3d model and I asked a guy who does great looking 3D car models. This was few years ago and if I remember correctly, the price was under 300$, the whole car! He said he can do the model if I had some dimensions and pictures. No body or whole car needed. If this sounds good, I'll search my e-mails (on another pc) to check what his website adress was. I tried to google it, but coud not find it now.

    3. I agree that Autocad is crap, but as I work with programs like SolidWorks, IMO it isn't the best choice for this kind of work. I know I'm repeating myself, but please give Rhino a try. I said earlier that it's free, but I just visited the website and it seems that it's not. You can only use it 25 times and after that you won't be able to save your work :(

    There is a free one called blender which seems to be good for car modeling too (in skilled hands that is)
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Blender_node_screen_242a.jpg
    http://img2.vpx.pl/up/20090508/ddd.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  19. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    yes I have been wanting this for a few years hats probably why I know exactly what I want ...lol price and parts have always been my old back but I purchased my donor vehicle the other day and after years of watching for a body have decided it is just as cheap to build one like I want form the start . Time is usually the problem for most peoples projects but that is the one thing I have a abundance of but still hoping to keep the sheet shop time I have to pay for down to a minimum if possible. I am ready to try to make my truck happen it may not be over night but more like the old johnny cash song :D "I got it one piece at a time"

    ya the price I got was $3000+ and the original parts shipped to him , not to be disrespectful or anything to him but I would just rather spend that money towards my sheet metal personally

    nope I didn't like the autocad set up , I am currently downloading and watching the soildworks tutorials so far I see several features I like so I'll try this one for a few days if I need to later I'll try the Rhino

    Thanks for all the help everyone
     
  20. Unfortunately, as a CAD Engineer by trade, I think you're wasting your time with this endeavor. The curve to even begin to learn how to create a properly surfaced body will be steeeeep, and the time it would take to create the model would be looooong. The software in which to build the model is also expensive, as noted previously. The free/low-cost software will not have the capabilities required unless you're satisfied with something crude.

    You would be better served either purchasing the actual sheetmetal working tools (english wheel, plashing hammer, brake, etc) and learning how to use them to create the necessary panels yourself, or take your parts to a metal working shop that has the tools/employees trained to do such work.

    A pencil and paper drawing, supplemented by some sort of scale mockup - whether it be from clay, wood, or even paper mache - is likely your best route to accomplish what you need when explaining how you want things to look to a sheetmetal man.
     
  21. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    I guess it depends what you consider "crude" I have worked with this particular shop off and on for a few years and they have been able to work of my hand draw papers before but I am looking at the 3D as a improvement in that method maybe not professional but still a improvement in what we are used to working with for projects
    Both Cost of the machines and my small work area make it impractical to go and buy a bigger brake (say even a small a 12'hyd brake) to do this job (it would be nice but just not possible) or even buy a English wheel because of space issues even though it is fairly small item , to me it isn't practical to remove say my Mill or lathe to put a English wheel in that space for something I will not use as often so to me to is better for a project like this to work with the big shop that has the tools and building rather then purchase equipment and a warehouse myself for a one time build

    The 3d drawings with measurements will help eliminate me having to repeat explanations each time I go to do a part (as I don't always work with the same guy at the shop) and keep everything uniform to may take extra time but if possible to do it I would rather spend my time with the drawings then the shop time I have to pay for
     
  22. xerophobic
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 5

    xerophobic
    Member

    Another thing I can see being extremely useful in learning the basics of this type of software is the ability to creat lofted curves and potentially make plywood forms for your fabricator to test fit panels on.

    Here's a simple example i drew in about 5 mins.

    Steps:

    -creat multiple planes spaced apart from each other
    -draw profiles on each plane(say this is an exagerated door skin)
    -loft surface

    whats worthy to note is that in this type of software its very easy to go back into each sketch and fine tune/edit it. The lofted surface will automatically update meaning you can make small changes, have a look, go back, edit etc etc In my example my profiles are identical just set to different heights, but they can each be completely different too.

    A car body wont be "easy" no, but if you can get thru the initial stages of learning the basics at least you arent wasting a ton of materials and fab guys time "testing" things.

    Once you have the surfaces its extremely easy to transform them into solid sheets, and or make the formers/ribs as I mentioned.

    One thing you do have going for you I suppose is older cars tend to be far less complex shape wise than newer ones

    I could literally show somone how to make this sample in 5 minutes, but then you'd be hooked and hate me :D

    (2nd picture uses exactly the same concepts with a few slight alterations to create a 3d carbon fibre scoop which has thickness and is a 'solid'. SW can tell you exactly the surface area, volume and what the weight of this item would be, if you give a material desity etc Note how few drawing steps are required, in the left hand column, compared to the first sample, not many more at all)
     

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  23. goldhunter_2
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 83

    goldhunter_2
    Member

    no hate here ...lol your 5 minutes would probably save me 5 hours ... LOL

    actual your first picture looks real similar to marine hull design program I used to when I was building boats but the two programs have different concepts of other things but the lofting theory should be about the same

    I am still watching the all tutorials

    One question I haven't seen in there and maybe you can answer . can I draw the entire body then explode the parts for individual editing or am I correct to think with this system I have to draw each part then fit them ?



    .
     
  24. xerophobic
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 5

    xerophobic
    Member

    Grrrrrrr, you had to ask THAT didnt you :D

    Honestly when i learned I was drawing everything, no matter how complex, as a single "part" I was warned this was incorrect (obviously), but it certainly was alot easier when first learning. Of course when it comes time to actually try to do something with your drawing/model its a huge pain. You really want to build assemblies of parts so they can be split apart and manipulated as you see fit. This is more involved and requires alot more pre-thought in terms of what you want to do, that old design intent thing again. I find SW to be very logical in terms of how to model things, but you do want to do a bit of thinking first

    Example:

    I create a new Assembly drawing(not a Part drawing) "ABCD". In that I draw Parts; Part A, Part B, Part C and Part D. All nicely fit to each other and in many cases Part A was actually used to create Part B etc, in that they fit together nicely, faces/edges align with each other etc

    I think its obvious to see the problem created when I open up Part A and change it. Say a certain line which part B used to line up with, now doesnt because its "moved" in Part A.

    This issue is all part of the design intent and pre thought process into what you are doing and how to do it. Now a GOOD 3D model takes this into account and in fact this can be turned around and be one of the slickest and best reasons to use software like this because done properly it WILL change Part B accordingly to what Part A does.

    Thats a bit more advanced tho, for now I would focus on drawing simple geometries, playing with the software and seeing where things are, what does what. Dont be affraid to play and make mistakes, you can always close the drawing and open a new one lol

    Once individual parts make sense to you, assemblies will come fairly easily.

    One more thing, a good solid 3 veiw sketch/drawing of your item, no matter how complex or simple it is is always in my veiw the best place to start, even if its not dimensionally accurate.

    If you're already watching tutorials etc on youtube etc you will see there is a wealth of info out there to walk you through the basics

    Have you seen the ones with the automated female voice that damn near drives you nuts? hahaha :mad:
     

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