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Technical Any advice on how to fix this?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by flyn schlosser, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. trikejunkie
    Joined: Dec 2, 2011
    Posts: 63

    trikejunkie
    Member
    from Scotland

    You need to feed your helper up a bit , his arms are skinny as heck! (or is it a robot? -im not sure)
     
    49ratfink and jimgoetz like this.
  2. One thing I forgot to say about the cut off wheel. I prefer using a medium size electric angle grinder with a 6" wheel. This gives you some ability to flex the wheel slightly as you grind after the plate is removed. It also allows you to use the edge of the wheel to slice thru the weld. parallel to the frame. The downside is that you can't use a wheel guard to protect your eyes, so you will need goggles or a face shield. I have found that I can control what I'm doing much better with this wheel. May have to make a small adapter to get the center hole to fit your grinder. If you use it on a large grinder it makes it a little more difficult to finese the cut because you are fighting the weight of the grinder as your arms tire.

    Someone mentioned that the rivits might be just phony bumps instead of real rivits. Just look at the inside of the frame rail to verify if they go all the way thru the frame.

    Here are the wheels I use and have had good luck with. I bought mine on Ebay. Bought 100 cost about $1 ea.
    [​IMG]


    Please do no do this. Cutting wheels are made to cut, not flex and grind. You want to cut using the edge. Never grind on the face of a cutting disk or flex a cutting disk...They can and WILL explode!! Yes there are many instances where they didn't explode but do a google image search on exploding cutting disks and it will give you pause to be very careful. Only saying this as I have 30 plus years in fabrication. It only takes an instant. Lots of great advice just don't want to see any Hamb member injured.
     
  3. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 401

    jimgoetz
    Member

    After you bang your shin a couple of times you start making up new words and then you do this.
     
  4. Hold on a minute here,,,
    I think I get it now.
    Let’s say I get some really jacked up metal somekindathingie. It’s no big deal to cut it apart, pound it, measure and cut it and weld it back together. first trust my life on it and secondly if needed to be sure nobody could tell I was there. That’s because I do it everyday.

    However if a surgeon told me they would just cut an abdomen ( my abdomen) open and fix the broken somekindathingie then It gets to be a big deal . Not something I do everyday but that surgeon who has a big old iron wart on his 32 frame has got his panties all wadded up. The surgeon isn’t going to explain how easy it is because it’s really not a DIY hobby. Even though he could do it drunk off his ass.

    So that being said, many here could remove that mess off your frame and even while being totally inebriated
     
    verno30 and Baumi like this.
  5. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,263

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This. ^^^ Egg-zactly. Two of my gennie frames (both '32) had large holes in side rails, one from a previous owner moving the steering back 11". (?) Probably making an old 'dragster'...
    Other frame had a rectangular hole torch cut, drivers side, in the web of the rail. Right above the 'B' pillar.
    Unfazed, I cleaned up the torch cut, trimmed down some 11 gauge mild steel...V'd the sides of the hole, and welded in a patch...finish weld was ground and FILED smooth, inside of rail was also finished.
    Undiscernible repair, frame got painted BLACK.
    First frame, same thing. Plugs made (even the 1/2" bolt holes) welded and file finished.
    I didn't even HAVE to buy new repop rails...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
    loudbang, 48fordnut, jimgoetz and 2 others like this.
  6. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,100

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Leave it exactly as is and stick an amber reflector on it.

    Or........ grind the rivets and center wart down and stick a bigger amber reflector on it.
     
    48fordnut and flyn schlosser like this.
  7. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 2,709

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  8. hemihotrod66
    Joined: May 5, 2019
    Posts: 230

    hemihotrod66
    Member

    Well we Z frames,,,,Repair rusted and cracked section,,,We install new body mounts and crossmembers so I think this small hole is no big deal....Just fix it .... I would....
     
  9. reagen
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 119

    reagen
    Member

    I'LL say a Prayer for you all
     
  10. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 250

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    Appreciate the advice
     
  11. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 250

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    Appreciate it I know I was kind of over thinking .It just the side profile of the frame so a little nervous
     
    jimgoetz likes this.
  12. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 606

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It can be patched, and be as strong as the original frame.
    My concern would be the level of workmanship. (Not meaning to trash anybody here.)
    I say this because I see way too many pics on the HAMB of guys mig welding parts that are still covered with paint, rust and other crap. You CANNOT achieve a sound weld when the parent metal is covered with crap. Sandblast, grind, whatever method you have at hand until the piece you're welding is bright, shiny steel. Don't use hot rolled steel for the patch unless you've ground the scale off it and it's bright and shiny too. Cold rolled steel or HSLA if you can get it is preferred, both are stronger than hot rolled. Whatever welding method you use (tig preferred) make sure you have 100% penetration before you start grinding welds. Use the same gauge or slightly thicker material for the patch.
    Personally, I'd rather cut out an area slightly larger than the holes and weld one rectangular patch in, rather than fill one large hole and four small ones. Less heat, less distortion, less cleanup, better finished repair.
     
  13. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,007

    19Eddy30
    Member
    from VA

    Its been a Week , I hop Frame has been fixed/repaired , Primed & Ready for Paint ?!!;)
     
  14. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,245

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    Man WTH , if this much time and effort has been spent on fixin an issue on the frame that you are wanting to repair , you’ll never get to ride in your car . You are going to hit a lot of bumps building a car . Repairing that “ bump “ in your frame is a pretty lightweight issue . Put some big boy pants on and attack the issue , and get er done ! Do as so many have suggested , even if if does require cutting and repairing with a coupon , so be it get started ! This tip about removing the shield and using a cut off wheel to grind with , is about the worst safety issue that is never to be done . I would never suggest to anyone to do this , you NEVER do as was suggested for you to do with your grinder and cut off disc . If you are worried about the patch in your frame causing harm , I suppose you had a complete mental break down worried about what carnage that exploding cut wheel can do to you without the guard attached to your tool . Your tools are just as defined as tools , it is your responsibility to use them correctly and safely as possible . It’s really to tough to go to a Sears goin out of business sale and buy what that exploding wheel could destroy on your body faster than you can react to stop it from happening . I had a wheel explode using it correctly , pieces broke my Jackson brand fiberglass welding / grinding helmet . This was while using everything correctly as the tools were designed to be used . Just remember you can not fix STUPID , and that is what you truly are if you take the safety factor out of your tools and use them not as they are designed to be used . Sorry to rant , I’m a bit unset , I can not understand anyone on the HAMB would be telling you to make a hand grenade out of your grinder and thinking it’s ok . He not only could effect your well being , but your family will be effected way more that he can ever think it could be by such a mistake . Be safe as possible , on your frame don’t sweat the small stuff , it’s an easy fix , if I was closer to you I would load up my tools , and welder and send you out with your family for a few hours and on return you would never know anything was attached to your frame . Don’t ever think about replacing the rail , if you can’t repair the the defect you have , you’ll never be able to deal with replacing of a full rail or both . Fix it and start having fun , safely !
     
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 20,195

    Roothawg
    Member

  16. B.A.KING
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,639

    B.A.KING
    Member

    This. Or tell them its how you set wedge when you race on round track.You know every 32 ford KNOW-IT-ALL is gonna ask. GREAT conversation starter!!LEAVE IT..Life is short, we need all the humor/laughs we can get!!!!!
     
  17. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,803

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Pretty sure it took Noah less time to build the ark than is has to figure out how to fix this poor guy's frame.,
     
  18. ;)
     
    Cosmo49 and 49ratfink like this.
  19. blvdbill
    Joined: Feb 2, 2010
    Posts: 337

    blvdbill
    Member
    from California

    This is unbelievable , Cut it out and patch it , done deal
     
    49ratfink likes this.
  20. hotrod1948
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 454

    hotrod1948
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Milton, WI

    How about an update photo from the OP? Maybe we will all be surprised to find out it is finished! I’m not hopeful!
     
  21. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,671

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    As others have said, I'd just cut the welds and repair the hole. Do a nice job welding it and smooth it out. You should be body working your frame anyway, so nobody will be the wiser.
     
  22. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,454

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Good advice and I agree everyone should work safely.......so let me try to explain a little better. In order to use a cutoff wheel like this on a medium size angle grinder you can't keep the wheel guard in place, so there is no protection other than a face shield and some decent clothing. Once you have made the cuts to slice thru the weld and have been able to chisel/pry the plate away from the frame, there will be a small "ridge" remaining on the surface of the frame. If it is still thick, use a normal "hard/thick" grind wheel to get close to the frame. When you are as close as you feel comfortable grinding with a hard wheel, change back to the thin wheel. You are still cutting with the edge of the wheel but the side does touch the frame surface lightly. The side touches lightly even when you are just slicing, so there is very little difference in what the wheel is feeling. The slight flexibility of the thin wheel allows a more deft application and it tends to slide across the surface of the frame while removing any remaining metal protruding above the surface. Its still basically cutting with its perimeter edge but it allows the builder a better method of preventing coarse grinding of the frame. It should be understood that you don't want to use a "heavy hand" but rather a little finese, and the slight flexibility of the wheel allows for that. Its hard to completely remove a weld from a surface with a hard solid wheel and not get into the base surface. I have successfully used my suggested method many times. It should go without saying that one should keep his face away from the grinder when doing this, and a face shield and leather gloves should be used. One other thing, I suggest that whether you own a welder or not, get a pair of Tillman "Deerskin" gloves and you will love using them on just about everything. Don't use em on greasy stuff, but all your fab and lifting and welding , they are great. Get the "deerskin", as I haven't tried the other "skins" like pigskin or kidskin. I usually pay about $12 for a pair at the welding store.....so don't get gouged . Try a pair of them and you'l love em.......and I'm not affiliated with them.;)
    https://www.amazon.com/Tillman-Larg...rds=Tig+welding+gloves&qid=1581622560&sr=8-95

    One other very important thing..........when you put this size wheel on a medium size grinder, the edge of the wheel will be very close to your finger and it will make one of those thin slices that bleeds like he**. Thats another reason for the gloves.
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  23. Dedsoto
    Joined: Jan 7, 2014
    Posts: 66

    Dedsoto
    Member
    from Australia
    1. Aussie HAMBers

  24. michaelvz51
    Joined: May 24, 2011
    Posts: 431

    michaelvz51
    Member
    from So Cal
    1. HAMB Merc Club

    You could also use a good quality plasma cutter in gouging mode with the right consumables and machine setting which will easily shave rivet heads off AND clean out the weld without damaging the original metal. It is a quick and very efficient way to fix this.
     
  25. hotrod1948
    Joined: Jan 17, 2011
    Posts: 454

    hotrod1948
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Milton, WI

    Just another unknown outcome. Probably scrapped.
     
    49ratfink likes this.
  26. flyn schlosser
    Joined: Oct 13, 2014
    Posts: 250

    flyn schlosser
    Member
    from phelan, ca

    I appreciate all the reply's. I havent done anything yet but I am going to cut it out and just patch it . I will post pics when I'm done . Thank you
     
  27. hotrodlane
    Joined: Oct 18, 2009
    Posts: 158

    hotrodlane
    Member

    LOL!!! you guys kill me, This is baby shit! You should see some of the frames i have repaired over the years. My 5 window Frame (that went to New Zealand) was put together out of 3 rough original frames. Cut the damn thing off there and clean it up. the rear clip in these pics with all that extra shit welded on it. Is getting used as we speak. when I am done cleaning all that shit off there and filling the extra holes you will never know it was even there. rear frame (2).jpg rear frame (2).jpg rear frame (2).jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  28. hotrodlane
    Joined: Oct 18, 2009
    Posts: 158

    hotrodlane
    Member

    keep in mind if that is truly the way you want to fix this that part of the rail is not flat metal. I would cut into the weld with a cut off wheel and knock the plate off and weld up the holes and metal finish it with a flap wheel and a final it with 40 grit disc on a DA.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  29. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,454

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Have to disagree with using plasma cutter in this situation because one slightly wrong move will damage the frame. Better to proceed slowly .

    If you think you are just going to cut it out and replace it, why not at least try the method I suggested before you cut a hole in the frame? You can always cut the hole later but I think you will find removing the plate will work just fine. Nothing to lose by trying, and you may learn a few things from trying.
     
  30. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 2,100

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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