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Hot Rods Anti Hot Rod & Muscle Car Enforcement by Wisconsin State Patrol

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Blues4U, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 7,701

    manyolcars

    I've been saying for same time that RATRODS are going to draw attention from some lawmaker who is going to come down on all of us. Hotrodders had the same problem in the early 195os and had to change public opinion by cleaning up their act. Ratrods must become unacceptable again
     
  2. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 937

    Beanscoot
    Member

    "According to the article, the Wisconsin State Patrol has recently changed it's interpretation of laws concerning fenderless and hoodless hot rods and certain other features, and have started issuing 10 day fix-it tickets."

    Issuing such repair orders is a clever way to suppress modified vehicles, because while a simple infraction ticket can be fought in court, I don't believe a "Fix or Repair Order" can, or certainly not in a simple, no cost, manner.

    Of course it depends on how the legal system works in a particular jurisdiction.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  3. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,166

    Fortunateson
    Member

    You misspelled "chicks"; in her case it is spelled BITCH. The only reason her govt did it was to garner a handful more votes, didn't work.
     
    blowby and trollst like this.
  4. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,166

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Well put.
     

  5. I didn't say I was confused. I asked for specific wording. You gave me some Wis Administrative Code to refer to ok. Your reply can leave incorrect ideas about Wisconsin and our laws. So here's what I know.

    Wisconsin Chapter Trans 305.065 was created to instruct the Wisconsin Division of Motor Vehicles how to title a homemade, replica, street modified and reconstructed vehicle. This was necessary because the creation of the “HOBBYIST” license plate State Statute in 1975 required the applicant for the “HOBBYIST” plate to classify his vehicle as homemade or reconstructed. When the plate was sent to the applicant the vehicles title was branded with one of the two choices and the year of the vehicle became the year when the “HOBBYIST” was issued to the vehicle owner. To be clear this was the choice of the vehicle owner. As the Statute states if one decides “homemade” or “reconstructed” the vehicle must be inspected


    Trans 305.065Homemade, replica, street modified, reconstructed and off-road vehicles.

    (1)  Inspection. Upon completion of assembly or reconstruction, every homemade or reconstructed vehicle shall be inspected prior to being registered or titled for compliance with this chapter, ch. Trans 149 and ch. 347, Stats. The inspection shall be performed by an inspector authorized by the department to perform inspections of salvage vehicles under s. 342.07, Stats. This subsection does not apply to trailers or semitrailers.

    (a) Homemade and reconstructed vehicles. The department shall issue a title indicating that a vehicle is a homemade or reconstructed vehicle where the make of the vehicle would otherwise be shown on the title. The model year shown on the title shall match the calendar year of the inspection performed under this section.

    In the early 1990’s Wisconsin Department of Transportation, which includes the Wisconsin State Patrol, agreed with us to create the “replica” and “street modified” classifications. We did not want our rods, customs etc. classified as “homemade” or ”reconstructed” because prior to 1994 a vehicle titled as “HM” or “REC” would be titled as the year of when the vehicle was registered. Additionally “replica” and “street modified” were created to instruct DMV to title the applicants vehicle as the original make and model year of the street modified vehicle or the make and model year of the vehicle being replicated. This choice was made by the vehicle owner

    Trans 305.065Homemade, replica, street modified, reconstructed and off-road vehicles.

    (2) Titles.

    b) Replica and street modified vehicles. The department shall issue a title indicating that a vehicle, except a motorcycle, is a replica or street modified vehicle and the make and model year shown on the title shall be the original make and model year of the street modified vehicle or the make and model year of the vehicle being replicated. The installation of reproduction body parts on a previously manufactured and titled vehicle body and frame is not considered by the department to constitute a replica vehicle for purposes of identifying the vehicle on its title. A vehicle shall be considered a replica or a street modified vehicle if it has been certified by the owner to be a replica or a street modified vehicle for purposes of registration under s. 341.268, Stats. A vehicle shall also be considered a street modified vehicle if the vehicle's engine has been replaced with one which required adaptation beyond ordinary replacement.

    If “Any modified car or truck in the state is consider reconstructed by law." there would have no need to create “replica” or “street modified”. Also 306.065 would be in conflict with itself.

    You refer to Chapter Trans 149 INSPECTION OF A HOMEMADE, RECONSTRUCTED OR REPAIRED SALVAGE VEHICLE

    Trans 149.01Purpose and scope.

    (1) As authorized by s. 342.07 (2), Stats., the purpose of this chapter is to establish the department's administrative interpretation of s. 342.07, Stats., relating to the inspection of a repaired salvage vehicle.

    (2) This chapter applies to any person seeking to obtain a certificate of title on a homemade vehicle, reconstructed vehicle, repaired salvage vehicle or on a vehicle identified in another jurisdiction as a repaired salvage or salvage vehicle.

    This very lengthy Administrative Code describes the procedure for applying for a homemade or reconstructed title, if some one wants one. It describes the inspectors and inspections. I don’t find anything saying this law must consider any modified car or truck as reconstructed. The term “modified” is no where in ch trans 149.

    Wisconsin DMV has titled and licensed many fenderless hot rods since 1994 and were not declared reconstructed by law. DMV looked at pictures before titling and licensing. Many have been operating on Wisconsin highways for some time.

    305.065 (2)(b) DOES NOT REQUIRE INSPECTION!


    305.065 and ch trans 149 do not state in any section "Any modified car or truck in the state is consider reconstructed by law." I believe this is your opinion, I do not believe it is Wisconsin law.

    Curt R
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    Max Gearhead likes this.
  6. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 905

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    Curt R . This was how it was explained to me in several occasions when I had conversations with the Dot and State patrol inspectors over the years on projects I was involved with. So yes this was my opinon of the law as I was lead to understand it. If I have been misinformed I am sorry for then repeating false info. As I said I was always left with more questions than answers . And if you can show me exactly what the law says and requires an what is legal and is not I know I and a lot of others would find it helpful to see it. Again I am sorry if my comments where misinformed. Larry
     
  7. paintman27
    Joined: Apr 23, 2011
    Posts: 254

    paintman27
    Member
    from new jersey

    This is only the begining. Just wait until more of the millenials get into positions of power. Since they started grade school, they have been taught the demonazation of all internal combustion powered motor vehicles. Emission compliant or not. If you think i'm wrong just listen to what AOC has to say about it.
     
  8. a boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,018

    a boner
    Member

    I think it was more of the head of the State Patrol was a car guy (nice guy).....he retired (a while back).....the new head isn't anywhere near a car guy (to put it politely).
     
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  9. The May 2nd ruling will go a long way as to which way this will go legally. I find it hard to believe that a judge can find someone guilty for something that's not written in a state statute. Hard to misinterpret something that isn't there.
     
    raven likes this.
  10. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 905

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    This topic has been bothering me all night so I have been trying to research automotive fender laws and such on line and one of the first things to come up was a 2005 thread on the HAMB about a Wisconsin guy getting ticketed for no fenders on a channeled Model A sedan and a bunch of you guys where on that one too! Fourteen years later and still no real answers! Oh man I got a head ache:(! Hopefully milscruffy is right and there will be some answers after May 2nd. I need asprin ! Larry
     
  11. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,989

    belair
    Member

    I love Texas.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  12. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 3,168

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    ....Not That There's Anything Wrong With That™ *cough*
     
    427 sleeper likes this.

  13. I have no doubt State Patrol and DOT gave you those explanations. State Patrol Inspectors have given their explanations to many other people including myself. As you said “So yes this was my opinion of the law as I was lead to understand it.” The key to your statement is you were lead to understand it. Many disagree with their explanations, will not accept their leading explanations and will take steps to find out what is correct or incorrect.

    If you were misinformed I don’t know and you are stating things you have been led to believe, no apology required.

    It is unfortunate you were left with more questions than answers, not surprising after a discussion with some government employees.

    Sounds like you know how to find and read thru Wisconsin State Statutes and Administrative Code so I shouldn’t have to show you “exactly what the law says and requires and what is legal and is not”. Reading a law is basic, if after reading the law, one doesn’t understand, a lawyer can be helpful. Anyway, it is probably time for some people to learn how to find and research things and not depend on the social forums to be their only source of info.

    The Dodgeville, Wi. situation is about vehicle requirements for a 1932 Ford. It has nothing to do with “reconstructed” or “homemade”. This entire thread went off point when recon and hmade were thrown into the discussion. If, recon or hmade were an issue for State Patrol he would have cited the guy for improper registration.

    Curt R
     
  14. Somebody might want to contact SEMA for help.
     
    Speed~On, mad mikey and lurker mick like this.

  15. To my knowledge, in the past, there have been two issues in Wisconsin, there may have been more, involving State Patrol citations for vehicles without fenders. The vehicle owners contested the tickets and the tickets were dismissed.

    A person being ticketed or arrested may not be guilty. Remember the saying “innocent until proven guilty”? Of course. Arrested or ticketed, a person can have their day in court to plead guilty or not guilty.

    Can a ticket be issued in error? Yes cops are not perfect.

    Would a ticket be issued in error on the chance the person will pay the fine, guilty or not? Most tickets result in the paying of a fine. Some people will not take the time to contest a ticket, paying the fine is more convenient. Paying the fine tells the court you are pleading guilty, the ticket is not reviewed for correctness, the person pled guilty, case closed.

    Would a law enforcement agency or municipality issues tickets to raise revenue????

    Would they issue tickets involving gray areas of the law????

    Larry’s statement “Fourteen years later and still no real answers!” is correct. Tickets will be issued, right, wrong or in the gray area.

    The answer is, until enough people contest the gray area tickets and when the court decides legally time after time that the tickets are in error, tickets should stop being issued.

    Curt R
     
    PBRmeASAP likes this.
  16. MMM1693
    Joined: Feb 8, 2009
    Posts: 397

    MMM1693
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I guess I'm safe in saying that this must apply to cars titled in Wisc. only? Wisconsin is a great state to cruise in, and while living close to the western border cruise there a lot! Summer fun could take a big hit!
     
  17. oldtom69
    Joined: Dec 6, 2009
    Posts: 378

    oldtom69
    Member
    from grandin nd

    With apologies to "Chinatown"--forget about Jake,its Wisconsin
     
  18. I'm not sure that would be a safe assumption. Look no further than various state helmet laws for motorcyclists. For instance, I live in Missouri which requires all motorcyclists to wear DOT approved helmets.

    Not far from here is the state of Kansas. Helmets are not required in Kansas but Kansas riders are required to abide by Missouri law regarding helmets while riding in Missouri.

    We should also keep in mind that the rank and file law enforcement personnel in Wisconsin did not make the laws but they are charged with the enforcement of the laws. My guess would be that someone fairly high up is making the road guys/girls enforce the laws for some personal reason. It will take enough people going to court, pleading not guilty, and getting the cases thrown out for it to stop.
     
    a boner likes this.
  19. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 905

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    I hope that someone directly involved with the court case follows up on the decision and reports what legal statues or laws where provided in the decision on the judges part. Hopefully the officer involved actually shows up to defend his reasons and presents what statues or laws he used to make his decision to issue the ticket in the first place. If he does not appear it is my understanding a case could be dismissed without any decision as to whether it was a justified ticket or not. If that's the case we have still learned nothing and it would be a waste of time for everyone involved. And to Curt R I have the utmost respect of your experience and knowledge on this subject and have taken our discussions on this post as a learning and knowledge gaining experience and I thank you. Larry
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  20. a boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,018

    a boner
    Member

    Curt, do you think we need lots of hot rodders to show up in Dodgeville Wi. at 9:00 AM on Thursday May 2nd at the courthouse?
     
    Speed~On likes this.
  21. Speed~On
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,132

    Speed~On
    Member

    I'm thinking a good turnout in support of a fellow hot rodder would be good. Moreover, a strong turnout and representation from the hot rod community to show both the judge and law enforcement that we're not going to take this lying down.
    The decision to reinterpret the law will have far reaching consequences for both hot rodders and state tourism. I'm hoping to attend Thursday morning as I'm curious to hear the troopers explanation and the judges decision.

    The more hot rodders that attend, the better.
     
    Max Gearhead likes this.
  22. Denny,

    I don't believe we need a large crowd. I don't know the size of the court room or court house in Dodgeville, Wi. Probably not too large. It's important for the court to focus on the hot rodder's not guilty plea.

    A fair size group of people which are respectful to the court and the proceedings would the best way for us to represent the hot rodder and ourselves.

    For now I know of a dozen interested people planning to be there.

    Curt R



     


  23. Larry,

    I plan to be there and will do a follow up post to this thread a few days after court.

    Thank you for the good words. Having been involved in the frustrating modified car struggle with WISDOT since 1971, it was important for me on this thread not to rant about the struggle. Imparting information and hoping the thread stays civil and focused was crucial. As important was not getting this thread eliminated. If our cars can't get on the road or stay on the road our tradition will end.

    Curt R
     
  24. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,266

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    Maybe as a hotrodder you love Texas but you guys have your problems too. I remember a while back that your state was reniging on registrations they had given out for those three wheeled car's. I am not into them but remember thinking they could do the same to anyone. The government was set up to serve us but has grown into a monster that thinks we are to serve their wishes with no regard as to how they take away the persuit of happiness of individuals.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
    raven, Blues4U and 427 sleeper like this.
  25. mgtstumpy,

    Awesome! Damn good description of the Wisconsin situation. We could use more people like you with your clear vision, understanding and correct solution on our side and LE. LE is fortunate to have you.

    Curt R
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  26. To all that posted on this thread or will post,

    Your interest and comments are much appreciated. Comments from others helps keep one from getting too narrow a position on an issue that is larger than one's self.

    Curt R
     
    0NE BAD 51 MERC and Max Gearhead like this.
  27. a boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 5,018

    a boner
    Member

    Anyone from Dodgeville want to ad anything?
     
  28. 1ton
    Joined: Dec 3, 2010
    Posts: 242

    1ton
    Member

    It's been my opinion that having Illinois plates on a car, while entering Wisconsin, is reason to be stopped and ticketed for something.
     
    427 sleeper likes this.
  29. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 444

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I agree, we're just a bunch of F. I. B's! Or Flatlander's, whatever you prefer. Isn't that discrimination???
     
  30. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 905

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

     

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