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ansen style swing pedals m/c question I need advice please!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by clockwork31, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. clockwork31
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 439

    clockwork31
    Member

    I have a model A and not much space to put under floor clutch and brake system, the body is 5 inch channeled in front and the slave is right where the brake pedal would be.

    I've search through the hamb to found good info on the firewall mount Ansen style assembly but nothing tells me if the dual chamber (60s chevy) master cylinder is good to use with a disc/drum combo?

    I've heard you have to change something in one of the chamber to make it work properly with a clutch and also, is there a certain type of slave cylinder to use with this master cylinder, the one I have right now is from a 80s blazer and it bolts right in the bell housing flange... Sorry this whole thing doesn't sound traditionnal at all but most of it is well hidden! :cool: Thanks for your help guys. Here's some pic of the setup I plan to use and my sedan.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  2. adventurer
    Joined: Aug 1, 2006
    Posts: 385

    adventurer
    Member

    Get the slave with same diameter as of master cylinder, or you will have a lot of troubles with pedal effort..... should be 1 1/4" ...don't ask me why I know this....
    No idea about disc brakes matter..sorry..have crums on mine
     
  3. gasserjohn
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,219

    gasserjohn
    Member

    bought my master at autozone...their rebuilts are done by a large rebuilder in canada using a stainless sleeve..........

    thinking that i could change sleeve size if needed?


    am using one side for rear brakes/dual 4piston disc brakes in rear
     

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  4. clockwork31
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 439

    clockwork31
    Member

    thanks for the answers, someone said in another thread there is a "residual valve" in one of the cylinder that have to be remove not to interfer with the slave if you use one of the cylinder for the clutch, is that correct?
     

  5. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,221

    F&J
    Member

    Yes, correct. In case you did not know; when that dual master was made for Chevy trucks, the clutch bore is opposite of what you would think. That's only because of the way the pedals are built.

    When the Ansen type pedals are used, now the clutch bore is on the wrong pedal. So, you need to take out the valve, which kinda looks like the metal top of an old tabletop salt shaker, and move it to the other bore. It snaps onto the end of a long coiled spring. But there also is one thick rubber washer in the very bottom of that bore where the valve could seal against. So, shake that washer out, and put that in the other bore first, before putting in the spring and valve.

    Very easy to understand as you get it apart. Hardest part is getting the snap ring out of each bore, without it flying in your eye, or across the shop where you will never find it.:rolleyes:
     
  6. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,221

    F&J
    Member

    ..forgot... One thread from 2012 talked about the difference in the fluid holes inside the bottom of the reservoir. Something about one side drilled different than the other; (one more hole).

    Back then I looked at two old used cores I had, and one looked the same and one was different. I don't recall much more about those cylinders i looked at..
     
  7. clockwork31
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 439

    clockwork31
    Member

    These are very interesting infos, thanks a lot, when everything is set properly do you know if this master cylinder works well with a disc/drum combination?

     
  8. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,221

    F&J
    Member

    I never tried discs. On discs, as long as the piston size of the master is matched to your discs, they will work with the same feel and pressure, if the pedal ratio is the same as the pedal ratio from the disc donor car.


    One difference in disc masters is the big reservoir, and that is mainly so that during the entire life of the thick brake pads, you'd never run out of fluid as the pad wears down.(they made it fool proof in case it never got checked)

    So, you can use a smaller resrvoir like that Chevy, if you plan to check the fluid once every 20k miles or whatever
     
  9. 327-365hp
    Joined: Feb 5, 2006
    Posts: 5,397

    327-365hp
    Member
    from Mass

    I've read if you use the master from an International, it is already correct, no need to reverse it.
     
  10. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,269

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    Just use the slave cylinder for the same application as the M/C.....
     
  11. 327-365hp
    Joined: Feb 5, 2006
    Posts: 5,397

    327-365hp
    Member
    from Mass

  12. clockwork31
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 439

    clockwork31
    Member

    I was trying to avoid this cause I have a hydraulic sbc bell housing and the mounting bracket is different but if I have to I'll make the bracket to make it fit.

    Wow, how did I miss this?! thanks!
     
  13. coopsdaddy
    Joined: Mar 7, 2007
    Posts: 883

    coopsdaddy
    Member
    from oklahoma

    I just bought a cardone master from orellys, are that worth a crap,also seem to find slaves in 1 in and 1 1/16 in
     
  14. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,066

    titus
    Member

    Ive had a few people ask em also if the master would work with Disc brakes, i dont run disc brakes and have never tried so i cant say for sure, i would be worried about the resivoir size, what i would do would be to run a proportioning valve in the line to the rear brake since your basically running the same pressure to the disc and drums and the drums take less so with the proportioning valve that would take care of that. A single resivoir and dual res master basically work the same if the bore size is the same. its mainly a brake fluid capicity thing

    The slave you have is 13/16s, so i cant say how that would work either, i think a guy could make an adaptor to run the 60-62 slave easy enough, i know the bellhousing you have and youd basically just have to make 2 L shaped brackets to make it work. hard to explain but i could draw ya a pic. if it were me, id try it and see what happens.

    Coop, when you got your master from Orielly is it a cardone reman? ive had good luck with them in the past, biggist thing is to make sure not shit gets in the bore of the master cylinder if your using it for setting up, put the rubber boots on.

    As for the clutch slave, i cant remember what one i ran but i think a buddy was setting up his car about a year ago and could only get the 1" bore slave, i dont remember what he did but ill ask, if he used the 1" bore slave i drove the car and the clutch worked great, he also had the 60-62 master.

    Ive learned one thing with brakes, try it, things that are said not to work sometimes work just fine, and other things that people tell you to do dont always work either.

    Also, i run 1/4 brake line in all places except form the rear brake hose out to the wheel cylinders, there you can run 3/16. (with banjo rear i run everyting in 1/4)

    jeff
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  15. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,221

    F&J
    Member

    I don't think the smaller reservoir would be a problem for typical disc brakes. The disc pistons don't displace very much fluid as you apply the brakes, because the pistons can't move much at all, with the pads already in light contact with the discs.

    The extra capacity is there to compensate for the extra fluid that will get "stored" behind the pistons, as the pads finally wear down all the way. So, if you check the fluid as the pads get to 1/4-1/2-3/4 wear, I can't see a problem.
     
  16. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,066

    titus
    Member

    Yep, i agree with that.
     
  17. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    That MC has a 1-1/8 bore both sides and the matching slave is a 1-1/16 bore. If your slave is 13/16th your pedal effort is going to be extremely high,most likely both feet.
     
  18. So-Cal Speed Sacramento
    Joined: Sep 6, 2008
    Posts: 463

    So-Cal Speed Sacramento
    Alliance Vendor
    from Sacramento

    since the braking side is essentially set up like a normal single-resevoir system would be, I would suggest using a proportioning valve on it as well. the proportioning valve will go in-line towards the back after you T the front/ back apart. it will essentially limit fluid flow to the back- forcing it to the front brakes. since about 70%+ if your braking power is from your front brakes, it helps to apply this force while keeping your rear brakes from locking up when the car lurches forward under deceleration.
     
  19. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,269

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    That's what I did...just made a bracket.....it will be chromed....:D
     
  20. tlap
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 15

    tlap
    Member
    from So. Cal.

    I have been studying these posts about the Ansen swing pedals.
    I have the pedal assy and the dual master and matching slave cyl.
    My question is on the clutch side. Can any clutch fork and pivot ball (for a SBC in this case) be used?
    I am using a McLeod scatter shield, does anyone have any pictures of a slave cylinder mount?
    Thanks
     

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