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Another way to lower the back of an F1

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Kevin Lee, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. Jaker
    Joined: Jan 23, 2003
    Posts: 869

    Jaker
    Member

    Agreed!

    x2

     
  2. looks prefect from here!
     
  3. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,191

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Stance is spot-on. Hell leave the fender alone too, kinda says "Baskerville" to me!
     
  4. Mark in Japan
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,466

    Mark in Japan
    Member

    Anyway that you raise the diff, it will come too close to the chassis, necessitating a C-notch etc.

    I checked my Magic 8-ball, and it said reduced spring rate plus 20mm diff to bumpstops clearance equals teeth gnashing over every minor bump in the road.

    But it sure looks cool!!!

    MIJ
     
  5. HotRodMicky
    Joined: Oct 14, 2001
    Posts: 1,766

    HotRodMicky
    Member

    Cool Stance

    How did you lower the front of the Truck?
     
  6. COS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2006
    Posts: 729

    COS
    Member
    from KCMO

    Thanks for the phone call!! :p This IS ONE way to do it and it looks great to me!!
     
  7. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Front is an original axle dropped 3" over stock from Sid at droppedaxles.com and three or four leafs removed.

    Had to drop the tie rod and rework the steering arm but it's all in order and working well.
     
  8. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Hey sorry. So next time should I call you over for the random fifteen minutes I get in here and there, the fourty five or so between lunch and my daughter's Saturday soccer game or the uninterrupted two hours from midnight to 2:00am? :)
     
  9. Call him at 1/2 time, Ha! Looks Killer broseph!
     
  10. fantastic, I realy like the stance, btw do you have pics of your front axle and tie rods?
    I'm planning to drop my 51 F1 and there is so much way to drop it , that I am confused about chosing the right way!!!
    thank's
     
  11. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    "dig the wire nuts from the previous owner..."

    Yeah. You DEFINITELY need to find some period porcelain wire nuts!
     
  12. matthew mcglothin
    Joined: Mar 3, 2007
    Posts: 970

    matthew mcglothin
    Member

    looks damn good...thinking of changing my mind about buying a 1st series chevy..your f1 looks good..what tire size are you runnin.? 670-15 bias ply?
     
  13. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,265

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I reversed the eyes and flattened the leaves on my F1. Perfect stance.
    (3" dago axle up front with reversed eyes too...I love that trick, and I can do it right here at home. Good ride, looks sani, and is the 'right' thing to do.

    Hey, anyone see the "newest" dropped tie rod ends from Speedy Bill?
     
  14. RichG
    Joined: Dec 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,919

    RichG
    Member

    I'm sure you're right, like I said, I really dig the mod and can't wait to see if it will work on my daughter's p'up.:D
     
  15. hiboy32
    Joined: Nov 7, 2001
    Posts: 2,774

    hiboy32
    Member
    from Omaha, NE

    thanks for sharing Kevin. I really like the planning it takes to make this kins of modification in just a weekend.
     
  16. Bar Ditch
    Joined: Aug 1, 2011
    Posts: 272

    Bar Ditch
    Member
    from Tacoma

    Nice drop and a nice weave bead.
     
  17. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    I'd definitely advise adding some connections to the vertical web of the frame at the angle iron. The rear weight of the truck is now being "hung" from only the top flanges, which aren't nearly as strong as the vertical "web" of the frame. The original method used 4 rivets in shear, distributing the load into the tall vertical web. The way it's installed now, over time those upper flanges will more than likely bend from fatigue due to the constant up/down forces from the suspension and may fail. Adding a vertical plate down along, and connected to the vertical face of the frame would do the trick. Just trying to help.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  18. Mark in Japan
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,466

    Mark in Japan
    Member

    I did mine like this;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :D
     
  19. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Alright VooDooTwin, I'm listening so... explain to me in detail exactly how and where that upper flange is going to bend.

    edit: And I like the gas tank, Mark. What make?
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2011
  20. Mark in Japan
    Joined: Jun 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,466

    Mark in Japan
    Member

    Aussie GM Holden 76 Panel Van :eek:

    Tape Measure & Wrecking Yard ;)
     
  21. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,545

    atch
    Member

    kevin,

    good work man. you plannin' to have that at the drags? i'd sure like to scope it out in person.

    i removed every other leaf from the rear springs in clarence and ran it that way for several years. i got tired of bottoming out on every highway expansion joint, so eventually i put them back in. i think that my bottoming out was the result of the inherent weakness of the springs when they didn't have all the leaves in. in addition, of course, to the fact that the axle and frame were then several inches closer together.

    did you put your leaves back in when you moved the hangers up? hopefully, if you put the leaves back in you'll avoid the bottoming out problem. with little weight on those springs they probably won't have too much travel unless you hit big bumps. (like the one that 37express and i hit on the way to the sk500 one year. fortunately for me he was in front and when i saw the back end of his pu in the air i got on the binders hard enough that i didn't hit it nearly as hard. i probably got slowed down to not much over the speed limit by the time i hit it. they had prepared to repave the road and had dug out the asphalt about 2-3" deep for about 20 yards in front of a bridge all the way across and there was no way to avoid it.)

    i'm sorta on the fence in regards to voodoo's comments. i can sorta see what he's thinkin', but i bet some big thick washers under that top frame flange would take care of it. you did put big thick washers under the top flange, didn't you? that is 60 year old steel in there. or rather steel with 60 years of stress and forces applied to it. it's true that your bolts and nuts will withstand the forces, but who knows about the frame steel? i sure hope that you don't get stress cracks around the bolts that cause a catastrophic failure.

    i think your engineering is sound, though. and pretty clever at that.

    but that's just an opinion that's prolly worth less than what you paid for it.

    i'm anxious to see if you like it a few months down the road. i've been planning to relocate my axle to the top of the springs but this might be the better solution.

    you mentioned the possibility of hauling an engine back there sometime in the future. let us know how that turns out. the last engine i hauled in clarence was way back in the day (early 70's) when it was totally stock, including the flathead v8 and all. it worked just fine then.
     
  22. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    To illustrate it, take a piece of tin that's bent at a 90 degree angle to simulate the flange. Now grab it with both hands and apply up and down forces on the flange to simulate the up and down forces applied by the suspension. Where do think it will fail? At the corner, I'd say.

    Again, I'm just trying to help prevent a potential issue down the road for you, or anyone else contemplating this mod.
     
  23. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,770

    fleet-master
    Member

    Hey there Kevin nice job !! if your ever worried about fatigue cracks (like after say 50,000 miles :D) you could either move your existing cross frame box section or add another one so that it sits central inbetween the bolts for the sring mounts and transfers the force directly behind the mount across to the opposite side (with 2 bolts either side) easy fix ...if its ever needed

    the stance of the pickup looks real cool!!
     
  24. raidmagic
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,438

    raidmagic
    Member

    I get what you are saying...I think. You want him to tie the angle to the frame side vertically to prevent the angle seperating from the frame or depending on just bolts to hold it together?
     
  25. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Still listening. So now explain to me in detail exactly how my rear suspension is going to apply that type of force to the top of my frame rail.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  26. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    Exactly. If you look at a TCI leaf kit, that's exactly what they do; tie the hangers to the vertical portion of the frame.
     
  27. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    Whenever you hit a bump, the force will be transmitted into the top flange of the frame. And when the suspension rebounds, an equal force (roughly) will be applied in the opposite direction to the original force.....which basically results in the action I described with taking the tin and bending it back and forth. Over time, the frame could fail at the bend.....or the bolts could pull through. We're talking about a frame that's about 60 years old, and could have corroded a bit.

    Take a look at how TCI and other suspension companies make their kits. Look at how Henry Ford did it. There's a reason they tie the brackets into the vertical web.

    Your setup might work fine, not disputing that. I'm just advocating to add a level of safety, which appears to be a very easy thing to add to your design. I tend to over-design my stuff, so maybe I'm over-thinking it. :)

    Here's a rough sketch of what I'm suggesting (please excuse the roughness of the sketch, I haven't had my 3rd cup of coffee yet) one way to reinforce the connection and tie it into the vertical....there are other ways, obviously.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  28. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Okay, I'm done listening now.

    Your drawing is missing several parts that are plainly visible on my chassis. Parts that make it impossible to have the kind of movement you describe. Seriously, I don't even know where to start. Maybe copy your drawing, flip it then add those parts and come back to explain how the top of the rail – which is tied to the opposite flange (below) and opposing frame rail several times over – is going to move up and down until it cracks.

    Sorry, I'm certainly open to criticism but I feel like you're missing some really basic and pretty important stuff here.
     
  29. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    I understand the "missing" parts play a role, but they are inconsequential. Your frame WILL flex, it's not a rigid assembly, so the concepts remain the same.

    Again, I'm not looking to stir up your emotions which I obviously have, that was not my intent. I was just trying to help prevent a potential issue. Seems you have it all figured out already, so I'll bow out now. :)
     
  30. Kevin Lee
    Joined: Nov 12, 2001
    Posts: 7,410

    Kevin Lee
    Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Not emotional, just dumbfounded. Inconsequential? They are actually key. Again, you are missing some very basic principals here.
     

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