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Another MII problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ozarkmark, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Dane
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,353

    Dane
    Member
    from Soquel, CA

    Somethig is wrong. Look at the angle of the upper spring pocket compared to the angle of the lower spring pocket. Way too big a difference. The lower control arm and tie rod look parallel, but by the time they are level with the ground the spring looks like it'll be in coil bind or damn near it.
     
  2. Black Primer
    Joined: Oct 1, 2007
    Posts: 966

    Black Primer
    Member

    Mine looked similar when I first put it together. I cut half a coil, and after settling in they are perfect. Glad I didn't take out a full coil, it would have been too much.
     
  3. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,372

    OLDSMAN
    Member

    After seeing these pictures, I went to the garage and looked at the pair od mustang II springs in my bead blast cabinent. They have 7 coils, and are uncut from a V-6 application. I don't know where you got those springs from, but I can count 8 coils, and possibly one or two more are probably in the hat. These are way too long. Get a different sent of springs, and all will be well.
     
  4. It cracks me up how all the experts can tell the spring is wrong when it's in the front end of a car that is not fully put together. The angle of the spring will change drastically as soon at that lower control arm comes up closer to ride height.
    Steve (El Polacko) is the only one who really got it right.
    YOU CAN"T TELL ANYTHING WITH A HALF ASSEMBLED CAR! And yes those spring will settle a bit
     
  5. plodge55aqua
    Joined: Jan 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,710

    plodge55aqua
    Member
    from Alberta

    If Im not mistaken.. Granada Springs fit well for a V8 Transplant..
     
  6. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,529

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    In the stock Pinto the engine is more in front of the center of the crossmember so the four cylinder spring is just right when the setup is installed in a rod with say a SBC engine. If you use the spring for a V6 Pinto it will be way to stiff.

    Strange but true.....
     
  7. Stevie Nash
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 2,999

    Stevie Nash
    Member

    Ok, finally got home from work and got out in the shop. I currently have the engine OUT of the Nash. When the engine is in the car, the front end is 4" lower. Ozarkmark is not seeing any compression of the spring at all.

    After comparing the two pics, I think there are a couple of issues.

    1) It's obvious he has the wrong springs. Not sure who installed the MII, but maybe this was intentional?

    2) I think he's got a geometry problem. My pic shows the upper and lower control arm mounts more "in line" with each other, even with the engine out of the car. Maybe it's a manufacturer difference, but I think there is a possibility it was installed incorrectly.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. johnod
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 779

    johnod
    Member

    Springs look way long to me.
    But I'd do what El Polacko says, he's given me much good advice about my MII suspension.
     
  9. 416Ford
    Joined: Mar 28, 2007
    Posts: 824

    416Ford
    Member

    I agree 100%

    I wish I had asked this same question 3 years ago. I just put the car on the road with a new set of springs. I have a new set of spring with 1 coil cut out of them and zero miles for sale if you would like to buy them.

    Steve knows what he is talking about.
     
  10. tikiwagon13
    Joined: Feb 23, 2011
    Posts: 371

    tikiwagon13
    Member

    23 years designing and building road race suspension for everything from Formula Ford to GT-1. I can tell at a glance that the spring is way too long. I'll bet my two book cases full of trophies on it.
     
  11. Well, that May or May Not be but my 40 years of building Hot Rods and Race Cars tells me that things are not always what they appear to be in pictures. I have installed many of the commonly maligned MII front ends with springs that looked quite similar when unloaded at full droop but had a soft enough spring rate that they settled right into position when fully laden. I have been a fan of long soft springs over short stiff ones in street cars for many years. My point was I don't think this can really be diagnosed from a picture of a front end that isn't close to being fully loaded - it is just speculation at best, whether an educated guess or not.
     
  12. regardless if the springs are correct or not i would still put all the weight on it and drive it first before i did anything

    i've had this argument several times with customers cars in process and each time the springs turned out to be fine

    i no longer work on others cars , just my own
     
  13. Jim Dieter
    Joined: Jun 27, 2008
    Posts: 389

    Jim Dieter
    Member
    from Joliet

    I have a 53 f100 frame that I took my panel body off of, and it sat right when assembled. But I swear the spring looks like yours with all the weight off of it. Put me in the wait before cutting column.
     
  14. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,479

    jazz1
    Member

    Mine looked like that until i got the truck put together. I was concerned as i had done all the work and was half expecting failure. The springs are now vertical,, rides and handles great. I have the 325LB springs. And add a swaybar.

    [​IMG]


    This is the spring with the the truck fully assembled,,if in doubt read instructions
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  15. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    I'm with the "wrong spring" guys......

    4TTRUK
     
  16. WelderSeries
    Joined: Sep 20, 2007
    Posts: 762

    WelderSeries
    Alliance Vendor

    I think I'll expand a bit on what Steve said... the shocks have a designed ride height, and his suggestion to make some spacers to hold the shocks at that designed height is so that you can continue your build and worry about the spring rate when the car's finished and all the weight is on it. I'm with him 100%- take out the springs until you're finished. Build the car with the suspension fixed at ride height, and you won't have any surprises.
     
  17. A long piece of of 5/8th threaded rod with a short piece (5 or 6 inches) of tube welded perpendicular to the bottom-inset where your shocks would go-use a flat washer and nut at the top(and another nut adjusted inside the upper spring pocket) and you can set the upper and lower control arms parallel to each other(ride height) to continue your build process.
     
  18. I recently finished a 38 Chev coupe with a JW HOtRod front end which is quite similar to the Heidt's. Used a threaded rod to replace the coil until the project was loaded and finished then we installed the coils. They have shrunk about an inch but everything is fine. I would remove the coils and continue with the build. Take some close up shots of that front end with out the coils so we can see what the installation looks like.
     
  19. Moparts
    Joined: Nov 22, 2011
    Posts: 60

    Moparts
    Member

    The spring does indeed look a little long......I'd drive it for a while and see if it will compress more first. Just my opinion.
     
  20. shinysideup
    Joined: Sep 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,627

    shinysideup
    BANNED
    from ruskin, fl

    Mine had 8 coils total and cut one off for a level ride with a v8. Looks like you have 10 coils?
    Even IF yours settled the coils would be touching at that point dang.
     
  21. Three Widow's Garage
    Joined: Jan 18, 2010
    Posts: 206

    Three Widow's Garage
    Member

    Can you measure the distance between the upper shock mount holes? The springs do look a little to long, but the upper hats look too close together also. If so you wont have enough adjustment to get you camber in allignment. Also makes it a PITA to assemble the front end. I had this problem with a aftermarket kit. the specs in the instructions were 2" off
     
  22. Ozarkmark
    Joined: Jan 17, 2012
    Posts: 11

    Ozarkmark
    Member

    Here's what it looks like with the springs out. They're 13" long, 4 3/4" OD and 3 1/2" ID. Don't have calipers, but coils look to be 5/8" diameter.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. Something else I noticed... From the pics you just posted, it looks like you are running a LOT of engine setback on the project. How far is it from the #1 spark plug to the LF lower ball joint? I think your springs may have been designed for the engine/trans to be much more over the top of the front axle centerline. Just a few inches makes a big difference in axle weights.
     
  24. According to those measurements, those springs should have a rate of about 340 lbs/in. Which should be really close for a V8 powered hot rod.

    Good Luck.
     
  25. dontlifttoshift
    Joined: Sep 17, 2005
    Posts: 651

    dontlifttoshift
    Member


    Your bookcase of trophies would carry more weight if you used your expansive knowledge to explain why they are too long based on a highly technical glance.

    I can put a Mustang II together in my sleep and have actually seen this exact scenario so many times....."it sits too high"....let's cut coils and then put it together".....and it always ends with "can you get me another set of springs"

    As stated, assemble the car with your mock up supports in place. Install springs, drive 500 to a 1,000 miles and assess ride height and quality at that point.
     
  26. Ozarkmark
    Joined: Jan 17, 2012
    Posts: 11

    Ozarkmark
    Member

    19 1/2" if I run a tape from the base of #1 to the top of the lower ball joint.
     
  27. 3340
    Joined: Jun 4, 2010
    Posts: 551

    3340
    Member

    Too Much Spring
     
  28. I think you measured height. He wanted to know distance front to rear as to how far back the motor is.
     
  29. Ozarkmark
    Joined: Jan 17, 2012
    Posts: 11

    Ozarkmark
    Member

    More of a diagonal line from the plug to the lower ball joint. The set back from the top ball joint to #1 is about 10 1/2".
     
  30. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,372

    OLDSMAN
    Member

    I checked my stock mustangII springs, and they are 13 inches long. As I said previously they are from a V-6 mustang. I still think your springs are not correct for your application. Good luck with your problems. Set up properly, this is a great suspension
     

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