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Hot Rods Another lost vin

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by headwrench, Jan 4, 2018.

  1. headwrench
    Joined: May 16, 2009
    Posts: 11

    headwrench
    Member

    I have a 1947 dodge two sedan......the gentleman i got it from has lost the title. He doesnt even remember if he ever put it in his name. The vin tag is blank on the firewall. Is the vin stamped anywhere else on the car? Possibly on the frame someplace? Any help would be appreciated . thank you
     
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  2. FrankenRodz
    Joined: Dec 20, 2007
    Posts: 886

    FrankenRodz
    Member

    This is from a 2009 HAMB Thread. SEARCH is your friend!

    There is a 'secret' VIN (or serial number as it was called back then) on these cars.
    Pull a rear wheel and sand the side of the frame rail right where it passes over the rear axle. The VIN is stamped there. I don't remember if this is on the driver's or passenger's side.
    My old man was a NYCPD detective - auto squad - and he knew the locations of all the secret VINs. Way back in the day, of course.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/vin-location-for-a-1947-dodge.358660/
     
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  3. FrankenRodz
    Joined: Dec 20, 2007
    Posts: 886

    FrankenRodz
    Member

    Sounds like a Scam. Vin Tag would never be blank, so someone put on a Repop. If the vehicle was misrepresented as anything other than Parts, the Seller committed a Federal crime.
     
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  4. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 599

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    i am allmost sure the number should be on the doorpost on drivers side on a plate.
     
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  5. headwrench
    Joined: May 16, 2009
    Posts: 11

    headwrench
    Member

    There is a plate on left door post.. It says serial number....is that also the vin?
     
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  6. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 6,463

    5window
    Member

    How do you get a blank VIN tag as well as a blank memory? It will be interesting to see if Frankenrodz is correct. Otherwise, you might just have a parts car. How can you even apply for a lost title if you don't know the VIN? For that matter, can you be certain you have legal ownership of the car?
     
  7. headwrench
    Joined: May 16, 2009
    Posts: 11

    headwrench
    Member

    There two tags on the firewall...one has stamped letters & numbers on it but is not enough numbers for a vin when entered on a vin search web page..tag next to it is blank. Must have had something painted on it. No idea what its for. Thats why i was asking if the vin is located someplace else.
     
  8. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,423

    ROADSTER1927
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    The serial number is what you need off of the door post.
     
  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 13,086

    alchemy
    Member

    There was no such thing as VIN's in 1947. The car was registered with the serial number. The tag that says serial number is the one you need to read the numbers from.

    Putting vintage cars' serial numbers into VIN database searches is futile. The format for the numbers wasn't standardized until decades later.
     
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  10. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 5,321

    56sedandelivery
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    Sounds like this thread needs to be, "Another lost, and found, VIN". Door post/piller Serial Number is what you need. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
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    If the serial number is not there on the door post tag, and it does not match the second serial, walk slowly away.

    No factory installed serial number tag would ever be blank.

    If those numbers are there, call your local DMV, and ask them if there are any records for that serial number in the system.

    If there are, and they are not in this gentleman's name, you cannot legally buy this car, as it does not legally belong to the person selling it.

    If not, ask them what the process is to get a vehicle back into the system. It may involve a bonded title.

    You are wasting your time doing that. What is known formally as a VIN, or Vehicle Identification Number, was not mandatory in the US until 1981. Prior to that, it was a free-for-all, as manufacturers set their own respective standards. Those websites expect a standard 17-digit VIN.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
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    Oh, and find the engine number, and check with the DMV for records on that, too.
     
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  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 1,970

    Budget36
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    Gotta agree. Kinda like saying like telling your doctor you don't really remember if you had surgery in the last two years....
     
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  14. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,270

    greybeard360
    Member

    To clarify things just a bit about VIN and serial numbers.....

    Prior to 1981, vehicles had 2 plates... A serial number plate and a body plate(or tag). The serial number had limited information, mainly the sequence portion... Usually the last 6 digits... And limited info such as year, engine, assembly plant and body type. The rest of the info was on the body plate.. trans, differential, body style code, paint and interior colors etc. Some of these tags were on the door, firewall or fenderwell.

    In 1981 all vehicle manufacturers were required to have all of the info Incorporated into the VIN... Vehicle identification number. The first portion is the body plate, the last portion is the serial number.

    So, all of the info you need is in one number now (excluding paint and trim).

    Sent from my Moto G Play using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  15. dan31
    Joined: Jul 3, 2011
    Posts: 920

    dan31
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    I bet the car never had a title. Many states only used bill of sale and reg. way back then. The tag that has the numbers on it that you say isn't 17 digits may be the serial number . I know some states will take that information and assign a 17 digit modern vin to the car . Some owners will buy plates at car shows or wherever and stamp their modern vin into it. The firewall is a common place to mount it.
     
  16. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 6,463

    5window
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    So, how can you trust that the seller owns what he is selling?
     
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  17. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 24,193

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    Well it looks like you already have it so the hunt is on for the serial number or maybe a registration paper. If you found a registration paper with the gent's name on it that would be enough info to be able to take him to the dmv if he is able to go and do the paper work to put it in your name. Or take the proper paper work to him for him to sign.
    If you haven't I'd search every nook and cranny in the car for any old paperwork on it. I drug a no title rig home a few years ago as a parts donor and when I rolled the body off the frame the glove box popped open and in the trash from the glove box was the title. An hour later the hulk was at my friend's wrecking yard in his crusher pile and the title was laying on his desk.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Not selling. "I have a 1947 dodge two sedan".

    Sounds like he now has it in his possession.
     
  19. Are you getting anything else done, Gimpy?
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Not much.

    A couple of patent proposals. A few job interviews.

    Mostly this.
     
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  21. For more dodge details try p15-d24.com
     
  22. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 402

    junkman8888
    Member

    Just checked my '41-'48 coupe, serial # is on the driver's door post. Best of luck with your project
     
  23. firstinsteele
    Joined: Jun 13, 2013
    Posts: 809

    firstinsteele
    Member

    YES. The "vin" as we know it today did not exist then. But be advised that a lot of states back then used the engine serial number on titles. Just the way it was done.

    Ben
     
  24. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 6,463

    5window
    Member

    OK, maybe this is what I meant. "So, how can you trust that the seller owned what he was selling?".
     
  25. ojai/jan
    Joined: Feb 6, 2008
    Posts: 82

    ojai/jan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from ojai, CA

    On my 1952 Plymouth Suburban the tag on the door frame is simply a body number, on these cars the number for titling was the engine number. On my car by taking off the driver's side rear wheel I can see on the frame the real number used for titling.
     
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  26. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,737

    porknbeaner
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    No one had a vin in '47 they had a serial number, it normally matched the original number on the original motor.

    There is a way for your more than honest seller ( allegedly dishonest) to find out if he ever registered the car, just have him apply for a lost title. They will let him know if he ever owned the car or not.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    No way he could, and he might be finding out the hard way now.

    Let's hope, for his sake, that this is not the case.
     
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  28. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 981

    gene-koning
    Member

    Get the serial number off the door post, and have a police friend run the number to see if it is still in the system. If that comes back clean, find out from your state DMV if they have a bonded title process.

    A lot of old cars are bought and sold without titles. It is a very risky thing to get involved with, but sometimes there are legitimate reasons a title does not exist. A bill of sale with the vehicles serial number on it always helps and is nearly always required. Some states proved a process to title such vehicles, but you have to jump through their hoops. Some states that process is relatively easy, other states it is not, and in some states, you can't do it at all. Some states consider a car or truck body as a reusable part and will allow a new build or a rebuild procedure to title a vehicle. That is nearly always a long drawn out process.

    What ever you do, you have to do it the way your state wants it done. Unless you plan on moving to a different state, then you do it the way that states wants.

    Someone mentioned that some states title the vehicles by the engine number and some states title vehicles by the serial number, I have seen many times those two numbers are not the same on original vehicles. Gene
     
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,651

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    And for emphasis, do this BEFORE you purchase the vehicle!
     
  30. So,,,didja find the serial number on the frame rail? In my state if I was in your position, I'd have to go for a bonded title unless I did some maneuvering that is considered a felony..not worth it.
     

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