The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Weedburner, Jan 28, 2011.
Great work !!!!!
I bleed them after the hose is run thru the bell, but before the trans is installed. Always works for me.
You can also rig up a remote bleed that runs in along side the supply line from the clutch MC.
Then the bleeder is on the outside of the bellhousing and easy to get at.
Friggen' beautiful! Been watchin' this from the start. DD
outstanding , that was an excellant tech on making a bellhousing , and the finished product is really nice ,
sure glad your close buy if i need one!
Nice job, that thing is a work of art!
I have a couple questions, if you don't mind: Do you have a CNC mill for cutting the peices, or did you do all that manually? Either way, the results are awesome.
Also, how much street driving are you planning to do with a soft-lock and a faceplated trans? I think that those 2 items will be very high maintenance.
That is very nice!
Jesus... I wish I had that kind of skill.
The thing I think of most when building things like this is, say 20 or 30 years down the road. A guy finds this and cant figure out where it was made and by whom? When the workmanship is of this level it would make one think (in the future) that it was a production part from the past. Lots of guys casting and building specific parts for their ride. Same thing.
Very cool and as I said before, nice job..
Man this should be on Friday Art Show.....its a piece of art!!!
No CNC or anything fancy, just a little hand operated hypertherm 350 that's good for 1/4" max. I go thru a couple sets of consumables a week, so i get plenty of practice.
You get used to the faceplates after a while. I've been driving this car faceplated for a few years now and it's a lot less maintenance than the crashboxes that i used before that. I keep a synchro on 1st just to make it easier to slip into 1st at a stoplite. I'm determined to stay with a good 'ol traditional stick w/ my hotrods.
The softloc is a fallback position if the "adjustable slipper release" i'm working on doesn't pan out. If that works as planned, i'll be able to switch from a slipper to normal mode without getting out of the seat. Should eliminate a lot of the pressure plate shimming and help the disc last a lot longer. The faceplates have always been very troublefree, but there's been a lot of broken gears/clusters that i'd like to get away from.
Give us a little more info on your trans. I take it that you have converted 2nd,3rd and 4th to dog ring shifting (or face plate as you call it)? Does some one make these parts? especially the dog ring that connects the gear to the main drive shaft?
Your bell housing/adapter is very nice and a great example of making a nice part without having to have a lot of "exotic" equipment.
I use dogrings/faceplates that are made by Liberty Gears, originally for 3rd/4th in the Ford Toploader. They don't make a 2nd gear faceplate conversion, i believe because 1st/2nd has a reverse gear made onto the outside of the slider that complicates things a bit. If you didn't mind losing reverse, you could just use the 3rd/4th parts in the 1st/2nd position too. I figured reverse would be worth keeping for my street car, so i had to get creative to get a faceplate on 2nd too.
They make Pro-Shift parts for 2nd, but you must use a clutch and it's easy to burr the lugs if anything goes wrong, requiring complete teardown to get the box back in tip-top condition.
With the faceplates/dogrings, it's almost impossible to miss a shift, and any burrs are usually self correcting. I'm still using the clutch to get a little slip at the gear changes, but i can shift it under full power, without using the clutch at all, just by bouncing the engine off the rev limiter.
Here's some pics to help explain the differences.
Here's a stock gear and engagement lugs (left), a "Pro-Shifted" gear w/ fewer/wider spaced lugs (right), and a "Dog-ringed" gear w/ it's star shaped dog ring (center). Pic is from Dennis over at Ford Muscle...
Here's a pic of two Dog rings and a matching "faceplate" slider (and a couple bearings) as i got them from Liberty. Personally, i think the star shaped parts are the "dogrings" and the lugs on the face of the slider is the "faceplate", but i didn't make up the terms, so i could have that wrong. Sounds logical to me though
Here's a pic of my 2nd gear faceplate addition. I cut apart a 3rd/4th slider and welded the outer 3rd of it to my slider w/ the troublesome reverse gear...
I've got more pics if needed, but these should give you the general idea.
Do you do any post welding heat treat, or do the gears live OK without it?
Did You get axed from N A S A HOLY HELL NICE WORK.
No post weld heat treats here, and the only problems i had w/ gear life was ripping teeth off the input shafts and clusters. When welding the rings to the gears, the heat discoloration never gets close to the teeth.
I don't know exactly how Liberty goes about their welding other than it appears to be TIG, but i use a process i call "reverse skip welding" with my MIG. Basically, the gear's engagement lugs are machined off to a diameter that allows for a light press fit of the dogrings. After the ring is pressed on, i tack it in 3 places along it's id, and following each tack and short weld, it gets a 5sec blast of compressed air for cooling. The gears themselves never get very hot, i can usually touch them to my cheek. These welds are completed in short 3/4" segments by skipping around and welding back to the tacks, repeated until it's done. Always cooling between welds w/ the compressed air. I use regular soft .035 MIG wire. Never had any problems w/ my process. I've even cut rings off of gears and installed them onto other gears when changing ratios, no problems with that either.
On the slider w/ the reverse teeth on the outside, i had to narrow the reverse gear teeth to make room for the faceplate. That gear is only engaged w/ the reverse idler when the trans is in reverse, so i figure a weaker reverse is a compromise i can live with. The weld is very close to the base of the teeth, but the faces of the teeth never got hot enough to change color. I wouldn't want depend on it to back a pickup up a hill w/ a load of scrap iron, but i'm thinking my 2330lb car can get away with it.
Now, take all the time you spent x $75.00 per hour and add the materials you used, the $450 will sound a lot faster and easier, but thats not hot roddin. I had a multi hole bellousing in my dirt modified that would accept a toploader, I bought it at a swap meet in Iowa for $50.00, it still had the SFI sticker.....
I'd be a lot cheaper to buy one, even a new one, but i always get some education when i try something like this. If i could figure a number for what i learn, even when i fail, i'm thinking i usually come out richer when i do it myself.
The thing i've learned to hate about those SFI stickers on a bellhousing is that they expire.
Very Very NICE !!!!
In response to a message that seems to have disappeared...
"where did you get the dog rings?"
I got the dogrings/faceplates from Liberty's High Performance Products in MI.
The rings were $65/ea, the slider to match was $100.
They are the guys that make those $8700 clutchless 5spds that the Pro Stock guys use.
I hope you mean your face!
Just came across this thread and read the whole thing ... incredible work!
How did you determine the distance for the clutch mechanism?
I turned down the toploader's throwout collar to the same od as the Chevy collar, allowing me to use the same engine/flywheel/pressure plate and hyd t-brg that I had used with the previous transmission. From there it was just a matter of comparing the two input shafts/collars and calculating the differences.
I've been running the car hard all summer, everything turned out great. Got to experiment with my "Hillbilly Clutch Slipper" quite a bit, resulting in a new best 60' for the car of 1.304, not bad for a man trans street car on 275 radials. The car is OT, but here's some pics of the slipper install, nothing more than a $12 hydraulic screen door closer with an extended shaft installed on the clutch pedal...
Depressing the clutch pedal pulls out the cylinder's shaft, and the adjustment nuts in the pic below determine at what point in the pedal's release travel that the slipper control becomes active...
Turning the knob changes the rate that the pedal releases after it hits the "active" point...
Works for me, much easier than climbing under the car to change the base pressure on a Long PP. This I can change from the driver's seat. Now I can spray the car right off the line, no need for a progressive controller. I use a Ram 900 series sintered iron disc and a Ram diaphram PP.
Here's an update...I went to a 3pc style bellhousing...blockplate, midplate, bell/can. Now i can remove the engine from the car with the flywheel and clutch, and leave the bell and transmission mounted in the car. I can also remove the transmission/bell/clutch/flywheel from the car without supporting the rear of the engine. I also added a couple external "ears" to the block plate, which gives me some easy attachment points for lifting the engine...
I'll take some pics of the engine lifting fixture i made for it. It plugs into the blockplate's added "ears" and into an "eye" that screws into a hole in the top of the waterpump. It fits over the complete engine with the aircleaner and distributor in place. Before i was always using some type of hokey chains trying to find a perfect balance point without damageing something. Now i have a dedicated fixture that plugs in and makes the job easy. Been thinking about attaching the radiator to the engine just to make choosing between a couple engines that much easier
Forgot to mention, the bellhousing itself weighs in at 16.3lbs. The entire 3pc assembly, including the bell/blockplate/midplate/bolts/hardware weighs 26.2lbs.
Inspirational - thanks for posting.
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