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Projects Another HAMB drag set back

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mcmopar, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    After working on the truck for the last week we finally got it wired last night. Most things worked and only had to screw with one wire. I got to turn the key on my truck and that is when bad things happened. When I got the motor I was told it had a new timing chain. I checked top dead center and all looked good. Cranked it over 3 times then bang and here is what I found. If anyone has a good running mopar small block laying around I would be interested. I am still going to drive it and race it at the drags.[​IMG]
     
    Dog_Patch likes this.
  2. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,649

    atch
    Member

    Sorry; I don't have any SBM engines laying around.

    Is here additional damage (internal, etc.)? I'm assuming that you need more than just new timing chain/gears.
     
    Javajo likes this.
  3. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Yep bent valves and push rods. Not sure on rods. On the up side cab and box are on and it's wired, so I can check that off the list.
     
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  4. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,873

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A broken brand new timing gear usually means an installation error or some kind of interference. Maybe the gear caught on a cam retainer plate bolt, or the fuel pump eccentric tab is in the wrong spot and cracked the gear when it was tightened down. I would get another timing set and roll it over by hand a bunch to see if there is any kind of issue.

    They build a whole car in an hour on TV. You have a whole 20 days, shouldn't be a problem.

    Good luck, -Abone.
     

  5. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,873

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you have bent pushrods and valves, that usually means piston/valve contact. If you have a stock camshaft, there should be plenty of room for the valves and pistons to peacefully coexist. Either something in the valve train bound up and broke the timing gear or, the timing chain was installed incorrectly and the valves got confused and decided to get the crap bent out of them by the pistons.

    Either way, it is fixable. Get to work.

    Good luck, -Abone.
     
  6. Wow. I have never seen a cam sprocket brake like that. Good luck on getting past this setback.
     
    john walker likes this.
  7. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 25,752

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    looks more like what is seen with flathead fiber cam gears
     
  8. jeffd1988
    Joined: Apr 12, 2016
    Posts: 537

    jeffd1988

  9. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
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    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    I turned the key. ^^^^
    Tony
     
    wvenfield likes this.
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 5,273

    Budget36
    Member

    When you pulled the heads, did you see signs of contact?
     
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,439

    squirrel
    Member

  12. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Today I try again, I have a set of factory J heads that I am going to put on. I didn't want to do this til I had some miles on the truck. I guess it happens earlier than planned.
    Tony
     
  13. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,847

    CGkidd
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  14. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,762

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Looks like the cam sproket was put on with a hammer..thats my guess!
     
  15. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    And we are back up and running.[​IMG]
     
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  16. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,439

    squirrel
    Member

    that's the way to do it!
     
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  17. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    The next question is timing. I found online that it should be at 5 degree BTDC. when I set it there I get a fire ball out the carb when I gas it. I have moved it to over 10 BTDC and it likes it but it was happier at I don't know because it was off the timing marks. I guess I set it where it likes it right. The third header pipe on each side was 100 degrees colder than the rest, can anyone tell me why?
    Tony
     
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  18. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,439

    squirrel
    Member

    I'd check the timing "all in" and see where it is. After 40 years or so, who knows what advance curve the distributor has?

    It's an old Dodge, I would not expect it to be perfect. It runs, that's a great start.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  19. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    squirrel, enlighten me. I am running points, and they look new. How do I check "all in" timing. When I rotate the distributor my timing mark goes away. How can I measure something I cant see? I have a craftsmen timing light where ya clip on number 1.
    Tony
     
  20. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,439

    squirrel
    Member

    If you don't have a timing light with a dial or display on it, you'd need a timing tape. you can kind of make your own, with a little bit of math, or just measure. If the timing tab or damper has 10 degrees of marks on it, then measure how far that is, and mark 20 BTDC, 30 BTDC, and 40 BTDC on it. Then see what the timing is when you disconnect the vacuum advance, and rev the engine up so the advance does not increase any more. That's "all in" and it should be around 34 degrees, if not, adjust the distributor position so it is. Then get it back to idle, see what the initial timing is.
     
  21. Good for you getting back on the horse! As for the timing I run 35 degrees total timing, All in at 2000 RPMs on my 360. I did shortened my advance curve so I have around 12 degrees initial timing, and have a mechanical advance only distributor.
     
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  22. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    squirrel, I'm on in in the morning and will get back. Thanks

    slayer, when I get a slap in the face on a car, I step back look at it the get back after it. I am going to race my truck. Thanks for the timing points.
    Tony
     
  23. atch
    Joined: Sep 3, 2002
    Posts: 4,649

    atch
    Member

    Jim,

    Thanx. I still learn something new every day.

    I'm 66 years old and had never heard of "all in" timing before this thread.
     
    Mr48chev likes this.
  24. @mcmopar, I'm quite impressed with how quickly you resolved your situation. Had that been me, I'd have probably gone through the stages of depression before I could have gotten back on the horse and got back to work on it.

    BRAVO!!! See ya at the HAMB drags in a few weeks.
     
  25. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    squirrel, I had a brain fart the other night. I timed it with the vac. advance on. Set it by ear, then checked it by light, and it was at 34 degree, and runs nice.

    bchrismer, I went through the depression stages, I just didn't have the time for it. I opened a beer looked at it, opened another one, and started taking it apart. we are up and running now.

    Wrap up some loose ends and off to the alignment shop at 5 today. Its killing me to not be able to work on it tonight, but it will give me a chance to clean my garage, It needs it. When I get it back it will get windows and fenders, and taillights, just not sure what taillights. Then drive it and find out what I need to get fixed.
    Tony
     
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  26. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Made it to the alignment shop. 1 more step forward.[​IMG]
     
    jeffd1988, loudbang, Tim and 2 others like this.
  27. I personally think that the only way to check timing all in is with a timing tape on the harmonic balancer. The @squirrel is going to use a dial back timing light. We tune different and shoot for the same result.

    Basically if you get it to run and pull good, its not overheating and firing on all 8 you have won the battle timing numbers for all intents and purposes are just numbers. :D

    When are you passing through here?
     
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  28. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    Plan on leaving on the 16th and 2 lane all the way. Not even sure where I'm going or what route. I know it's Joplin Missouri.
     
  29. Most guys go through KC. If you were here Thursday night my couch would be empty and we could tweak it a little bit before we hit the road on Friday. By the time you get here it will be good and loosened up.

    Then again there is always the parking lot, there will be tools and mechanics there. ;)
     
  30. flamedabone
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,873

    flamedabone
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    We have a loose gathering at Pete and Jakes Hot Rod Parts in Peculiar, Mo. About a half hour past Kansas City on Hwy 71. Exit 167, top of the exit, right by Sonic. We are usually there 11 am Friday morning, then wagon train to Joplin.

    Wisconsin isn't really that far from Joplin Missouri..... I'm sure you will be fine....

    Good luck, -Abone.
     

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