The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by 64 DODGE 440, Dec 1, 2014.
They would get more runs and probably have as much fun at the October Eagle Field meet.
From what I`ve heard there is an Eagle field 3 day event coming up fairly soon. Is there going to be racing or just fun passes?
The answer to that would be an emphatic YES.
I know my friend is bringing his car, I think he also plans to hit the fall event at Eagle field.If I can make the CHRR I'll more than likely go as a spectator and hang out.
May 15, 16, & 17th. Eagle Field. Friday night - night racing, full day of flag starts on Saturday, and a tree all day Sunday.
Went to ANRA opener last weekend and would like to thank the HA/R group for being very cordial and accepting my obviously not class legal car. The race that Ryan arranged between Joe and myself was the highlite of my weekend. Joe won even though he went red. His light wasn`t bad enough to offset my terrible reaction. I had a great time. Those folks that came up to me and are building SDRA cars. Come on down, lets play.
Dan, nice talking to you tonight, sounds like you had a good time at your first timed race with the new SDRA ride. I know there are a few issues that you are working on, but that is normal new car stuff, Next time low 11's. Are you going to run Eagle Field in May? Hope a few other SDRA car are built in the future.
Dan, I believe it was Dick than arranged that race. So glad you had a good time. ANRA is a welcoming environment with lots of great people.
Oops, senior moment. sorry
Hell, I have senior weeks any more.
It was a great looking race, how'd you do Sunday?
Like I said ,enjoyed the heck out of it. As for sunday ,went out first round. Car fell off badly and driver did the same. Talked with Hudson owner when he stopped by the pit. Car only weighs 2600 lbs. It was his first time out and he was trying to get a handle on his injection so it wasn't running up to his satisfaction. He`s a big time Hudson owners club member.
Don't remember a race weekend when all of us went out first round.
Re Hudson: Shake down runs are always interesting. That was one neat car.
A question for those who attend eagle field events. A two day event is happening in oct. Can you pit on Friday or are the gates locked until sat morning?
Yes you can pit on Friday.
We always go in on Friday and set up. We stay at a motel because we don't run a motor home or enclosed trailer. They have mosquitos that like ta lift you up and fly away with you.
Question is, do the track workers pit you according to class or first come first serve.
Rocky always pits us HAMBsters together. He also pits the gassers together. The rest are pretty much "you choose it".
Carry over discussion so we don't hijack other posts. Seems like the opinions around here about rev-limiters cover the whole spectrum. Maybe I'm too much from the "old school" and not serious enough about my racing, but the whole HA/GR class was brought about with the attitude of going back in time to the concepts of home built race cars (and engines) with the idea of bringing back the fun aspect of our way of life (sorry, I have trouble of thinking of it as sport) and racing heads up with our self built dragsters.
Summed up in the rules that everyone seems to want to change so they can build the car they think the class should be about. Basically rules 12 through 16 set the concept.
12. Flathead v8 or inlines, pre-1962 inline engines with stock cylinder blocks only. No exotic aftermarket inline six overhead valve heads (Wayne). No OHV V8s or V6s. (If you are looking to run a straight 6 with exotic heads or a flathead with an o/h conversion, contact Ryan for some good news.)
13. Engines must be naturally aspirated. No superchargers, turbos, nitrous oxide or fuel injection.
14. No electronic ignition boxes that mount outside the distributor or coil in cap HEIs. Conversions such as ignitor or stinger that fit within a stock dist cap are allowed. Aftermarket magnetos not allowed.
15. Pump gas/racing gas only. No Methanol, nitromethane, or alcohol.
16. Era specific carbs only, stock appearing- no modern Holley, Edelbrock, or other aftermarket carbs.
Rule #14 pretty well takes the idea of rev-limiters, stutter boxes and all the other electronic parts that save the driver from having to react to missed shifts and such by lifting his throttle foot to prevent potential damage to his power-plant. That said, these aren't Top Fuel cars and I don't really see the need for modern computerized controls on old school low tech engines.
The concept of these cars is fun, competing against others out to have fun, not expecting any awards, trophies or monetary gains from the results of that fun other than bragging rights in the pits at the end of the day over hot dogs, chips and beverages. If you are looking for more than that there are plenty of classes you can build for, but at the end of the day the HA/GR class was envisioned to be a time machine that would give those looking for it a chance to experience it as it was, "back in the beginnings".
I recall sitting in Old6Rodders pit hearing him telling someone who expressed interest in his car and who had asked what would it cost to build one, that he had spent more for his single axle car trailer than he had invested in the car. I know that there are some people out there with much more invested in just their engines and if that is how they want to build their cars, I have no problem with that, home built, shop built or whatever. Old6Rodder did indeed grenade his engine in May at Eagle Field (probably from many times having it scream over the red line from missed gears or over enthusiastic burn outs), but that said, that engine had over 7 years of hard use starting out as a used engine and never having the bottom end apart from the day he got it until it decided to take itself apart. That in itself says a lot for what the class is about.
End of my rant. Feel free to state your thoughts and we can have a lively discussion and swap ideas and opinions. That's what I started this thread for.
I fully understand the desire to keep the class as pure as possible but like eagle field, if you want anything to grow and prosper, compromise always rears its ugly head. My personal opinion is a rev limiter is cheap insurance allowing more fun time. My car was going to have a 58 gmc in it with a 4 speed but the jimmy was going to cost more than the 292 to build and the chevy has a much stronger bottom end so that`s another form of insurance
No Problem with your choice, it is your choice. From the different minds among us we have had the class evolve into the SDRA bunch that use automatic transmissions, later engines and carbs and radial tires because folks broke trannys and wanted more power and a wider selection of easier to find tires.
From there we have the NW/VR group who want to run slicks and that's no problem either. The cars race against each other and look similar so the people sitting in the stands don't really know the difference.
The boys in Australia have stayed with the rules and have plenty of fun. It's everyone's choice to build what they want.
My feeling about it all is that like everything else, changes happen for whatever reasons people come up with. As I see it the move to automatics came about because there were several people who had a problem breaking manual transmissions. In all the years the west coast group of HA/GRs have been running there have been a few broken trannys, but I haven't seen it to be a big problem. Over the same period I can only recall a few engine failures and most of them were things like cam drive gears, bent valves and pushrods, though there have been a couple of broken crankshafts, but considering that covers six or seven years and a lot of racing it's part of the game.
When I started drag racing in 1962 there was seldom a weekend at the track that someone didn't scatter a tranny or have some sort of catastrophic engine failure. The usual cause was over abuse of parts and the usual cure was a trip to the local wrecking yard over the next week so we would be ready for the weekend. All part of the game.
I won't say I never broke a tranny or other drive line part (15 transmissions, 2 rear ends and 5 rear U-joints between 1962 and 1966), but with the years the skills have improved. The days of heavy flywheels and over red line clutch drops are gone and we're still having fun with a pile of old parts.
Sorry, I'm old and tend to ramble as my thoughts wander, but my point is, if you want to build a bit outside of the HA/GR rules, I have no problem with it and there are plenty who do. My personal choice would be only one small variance in the rules as written. Magneto ignition, no electrical system at all on the cars and bring back push starts. Hey...we all have our dreams.
Well guys I ran my SDRA Hambster style dragster because I like the style of the cars and have raced automatics all my life. Just my choice . I have had this talk HA/GR & SDRA & Pacific NW with old6 many times. I think a lot of people wanting to build this style of dragster may lean towards the SDRA car as it more like the car they grew up with in the 60's and 70's power train wise. Correct me if I am wrong but no new HA/GR have showed up on the West Coast or AZ in the last 5 years, in that same time about 10 SDRA type have come out to play. This is what we thought mite take place and I feel it helps the whole movement. There will always be room for all three groups at most all the races out West. Remember 440, this group of old timers from the 50's & 60's is getting smaller each day and the younger 50-60 group grew up with different motor / trans experience and yes even rev-limiters. I'll just be glad if I can get back in a ride in the future.
Sorry for hi jacking the previous threads. To go off topic wasn't my intent. 440 ,you`re correct with moving this to the proper thread. I agree with Tom, without anything to draw the younger guys,anyone younger than me at 68, things are in danger of dieing off I have been approach by guys like me who are tired of spending 1000 dollars every time they go to the track. They seem interested, We`ll see. I will say you miss going fast.
I think money is a big part of all of the race programs. HA/GR or SDRA, even simple bracket racers with the simular spec built cars. Rev limiter could save an engine on a tight budget. A common early looking distributor could be used, the lectronic stuff hidden for the "look"
I am not a manual trans guy. A pressure plate explosion in 1974 , with no clutch bell housing shield put me off on manual trans. A few broken muncie 4 speeds in my 1968 Chevelle too
Certain years only on carbs, Limits a build some. Can raise costs. What a part in one area of the country costs, can change a large amount in a different area. Such as engines
I understand the need for specs on the class because of the intent of the class. Safety gear is something I see no compromise on.
I am a recreational drag racer. Win or lose, does not matter. I am racing against myself
Actually the HA/GR rules are pretty wide open. Other than requiring the early series engines, old technology carbs and ignitions and manual transmissions, you can run or build whatever you want, as cheap or as expensive as you desire. When you look at the expenses some people have put into "newer technology" cars in the spin off classes it's obvious that the cost of the build isn't a factor in desiring the new technology. Race cars are a "luxury item" and costs are justified in the mind of the builder and seldom are a factor of why the build is done or not. HA/GR is not really a "spec" class other than the 6" bias ply tire. You can basically build and run anything you want. Again going to the rules (adding in bold italics some not stated points that folks have overlooked).
12. Flathead v8 or inlines, pre-1962 inline engines with stock cylinder blocks only. No exotic aftermarket inline six overhead valve heads (Wayne). No OHV V8s or V6s. (If you are looking to run a straight 6 with exotic heads or a flathead with an o/h conversion, contact Ryan for some good news.) First, there is no statement anywhere restricting cubic inch displacement, origin, or number of engines, which implies by omission that Multi engine cars and motorcycle, truck or aircraft engines are permitted.
13. Engines must be naturally aspirated. No superchargers, turbos, nitrous oxide or fuel injection. No restriction on number of carbs, size of carbs or original use of carbs which implies motorcycle carbs and large throat carbs from various older vehicles are allowed.
14. No electronic ignition boxes that mount outside the distributor or coil in cap HEIs. Conversions such as ignitor or stinger that fit within a stock dist cap are allowed. Aftermarket magnetos not allowed. It surprises some people, but a points and condenser ignition still works after all these years.
15. Pump gas/racing gas only. No Methanol, nitromethane, or alcohol.
16. Era specific carbs only, stock appearing- no modern Holley, Edelbrock, or other aftermarket carbs. Stock appearing, I'll just let that slide, but the fact is that things can be done internally to a carburetor that will make a big difference. Again, see comment on rule #13. Also look at the cost of new carbs and realistically compare to old (not new manufacture, reproduction) carbs. Back in the '50s and '60s we found old carbs and rebuilt them and that can still be done.
The HA/GR class isn't about building "equal" cookie cutter cars, it's about bringing back old school innovation and thinking outside the box, if the process brings about a variety of odd cars it is succeeding (we already have mid-engine and side-engine builds and chassis design has lots of different ways to evolve). To this point in time there may not be a large number of cars, but there has been some serious innovation and that should justify it's existence.
I have been away from all of the conversation for a while but when I finally got caught up with all the posts, I couldn't resist put in my two cent worth on this topic.
As long as everyone is basically "bracket racing" with a tree and choosing their own dial in, it really doesn't make much difference what floats your boat. As long as it looks period to the people who weren't around in the '50's and '60's, it seems to me that it serves the intended purpose.
Until we all come together at a "national championship" or there are enough people running cars of this type that want to run heads up, we don't actually need rigidly enforced class rules or displacement categories.
I thought that it was supposed to be all about people who don't buy into the NR... definition of what a drag car is supposed to be, and are just looking for the chance to have a great time running their own version of what is "correct" against other like minded rebels and 'neer do wells.
I personally feel (even though I still go to the strip) that real drag racing died when they regulated traditional gassers and junior stockers out of existence.
'nuff said. I'll climb down off the soap box.
Hmmm, ok, as I read the rules a little bit. I can bolt together 2 Crosley engines. Over head camshaft head design, but it is OEM.. will have 8 cylinders inline. With about 1500cc or 1.5 liters. Couple SU carbs per engine. Crosley transmission will not hold up to one engine, so a Datsun trans or MG trans is adaptable.
Sounds great. Should be able to build a real light car and have a ball with it.
Crosley you gettin the itch for an open wheel car?? Sounds like a bitchin' lil ride. Definetly would be different.
Here you go Crosley. Just stretch the chassis and add another engine.
Maybe tie your knees together with an sfi cert rope to keep them from getting hung up in the wheels and stalling the motor
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