Hot Rods An altereds only racing organization similar to the SE Gassers, any interest?

Quain is an incredible, for lack of a word to describe his passion, individual. And the group he has assembled are just as big a bunch of hardcore, fun to be around gearheads as you will ever meet. Just think, the SEG's with an altered class to boot! You think the stands are packed now...

 

And theres your problem---- you are already comprimising the rules for car count and credability is out the window
The comp coupe is a fine looking car, but its not an altered by any stretch of the rules
Second issue is a catch22 not enough cars to be built without a series or place(s) to race and no track(s) willing to have a series without enough cars and then only when you pay an entry and your own purse/trophy. Tracks are in business to make money (they try at least) and to tag on to Stotts deal without bringing in any more gate, "COST" the track owner money.
Can/will it work--probably, but will take time to put together(the gasser deal took 5 years to get to this point)and will enough racers hang on until it does??
Rules will have to be rock hard solid and no changes other than true safety must be kept for 8-10 years, no matter the car count and the willingness to run 3 cars that conform while you send 6 home for not meeting the spec's before the first burnout.
Whats the draw?? gasser's have a high CG and a historic past, Whats the altererds draw??? are you going to spec a 24" crank hight minimum? is fuel allowed(another can of worms) or just alc without the pop and flames. what chassis spec will it fall under for the estimated speeds an ET's?? Where I am located there are no swapmeet parts to build anything period and it would take me a year of going to swaps to gather enough parts that would be cheaper to buy new and have them now and get the car built.
This is a completely midwest/east coast deal and great if it gets going, since I have no vested interest in this deal (nobody will come to me to have a car built) I would be willing to help with the rules package to keep these cars looking as they should and safe.
PS I have always liked what I refered to as the "magazine rules" as far as the overall concept/looks. Pick a date (say Jan 1st 1968) and anything that shows up in picture is legal to do up to that date, If you can prove the setback blower, MSD mag, Weld wheels, tripod front end, 125" wheelbase.ETC was present before that date-you can run it

 

I agree dreracecar. I don't think any rules have been compromised, since we haven't written any. I do like what Quain said in any interview I saw recently. He said "We aren't racer friendly, we are fan friendly". This deal would have to have the same rules in place. I tend to lean towards the earlier cars, prior to the fuel altereds, only because of cost. Guys wanting to get started can't afford a magnesium Mooneyham 6-71 and a 4 port , most generally.

This is something along the lines on what I was thinking. I am biased though because I ran a car that looked a lot like this one in the 80's.
Thanks for offering up your help with the rules. Pm me your email and I will send you what I kinda have started.

 

Agree with above......My car has a fresh TSR Glide and converter and a fresh 12.5:1 283......with all the little stuff (shifter, wildwood brakes, harness, tank, etc) I'm into it for 10K total - I bought my front suspension from Ron Pope and tires from towel city......the body is from classglass out of the old Ai mold - once I get it dialed in I would like to convert to Alky Injected Hilborn.....Maybe Mike from Alkydigger would get involved? I looked at early rules too when I was planning mine.

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1964-nhra-drag-rules-in-pdf-format.978471/

Here's a link to a pdf version of the 1964 Rulebook.

 

It would be easier to tag along if you used 1967 rules like the SEGA.

 

We may. That's if we even are at the same events. Right now it looks like it's 2 guys on opposite ends of the US.

 

Maybe I put it wrong, but you have a comp dragster guy wanting to join in and really nothing against comp dragsters, but its not an altered. Now on another side is that you can include them as a vintage comp (altereds,coupes, roadsters)class if you put in place an index ET and that way anyone can build their favorite style of car from that date era without a known or percieved advantage. The plus side of this verses a spec style engine rules (only appearence format) is that the clocks remove the compliance to the engine rules and tech does not have to check them to be legal, only a safety tech is done at the beginning of the event is needed. To do that, info would have to be gatherd as to what is already out there and what applies to the era. some racers must be willing to change their cars in order to comply--- but that always meets with resistence, so their interest is not the visual appeal of the class itself and its a tough call to make when somebody is sent home.

 

I think if we start from the ground up, most guys will build cars around the class. It can work as the SEG guys have proven. No one is getting rich on this deal, so just have fun and help to preserve history. We will build a set of rules and see who wants to join. There are tons of other vintage racing organizations out there, they can always join theirs if they don't like our rules.

 

Please, no index. Different classes by engine/weight, headsup pro tree, no index. Just like the NHRA rules.

 

Depends on where you run but you may be stuck at 10.0 if the car is going to look the part.

 

Who is going to tear down , inspect, pump, the engines for legality??? The honor system does not work when a new guy comes in. Winners engine out of spec, Now what?? whats to offer the bump guy in qualifying? 1st round and 2nd round?? Index is clean and easy to police and contains the amount of money one has to spend and EVERYBODY has a equal chance of winning unlike open end where one person is willing to spend $1000's just to win a $25 trophy. Back in the day when there was racing every week and you had to make your own parts and peices and open ET worked because things developed quickly week by week, but now one can buy good parts out of a catologe or pay to have "spec" parts built and you have no control over that, so if you want to win , you have to spend more just to keep up. Nostalgia A/F and Jr Fuel -A,B,C are open end ET and now A/F is down in the "5's" which was intended as a high "6 et" and Jr/F is 6.80's with $70,000 motors. Index lets you race each other and the best team package (tuneing and driving) wins and not money spent

 

The SEG guys handicap guys that dominate. Look up their rules, I think it's a good idea.
http://www.southeastgassers.com/rules
They don't even bother showing the times on the clocks. Just a win light.
It will be based on cubic inch per pound. That I am sure of.

 

That looks like a well developed set of rules but they didn't lay out the race format. I'd like to point out that an altered is not an entry level race car, the guys wanting to run will be very competitive and the rules of that class should reflect that.

 

I think what makes the Southeast Gassers so successful, is they have a lot of tracks in a small geographic area.

 

I think the index is the way to go. There are a lot of guys who want to be the big fish in a small pond and will spend the money to do so leaving the affordable race car in the dust. Like the man said people who run these cars are competitive and if there is no chance of winning, they`re gone. The rules should be if you pass tech and look the part from the stands you run. I ran into the seg guys at last years reunion and you can `t tell me there were more than 3 cars that have less than 30 grand invested

 

So, they spend 60 grand to win.......nothing? I think it will be a self solving problem.

 

Run an index and turn the clocks off, there were no scoreboards back then anyway, win light to the true winner. So you penalize a guy who works harder at it--- that isnt right.
Yes it is a self solving problem, class looses car count and the rich guy takes the trophy home. Been doing this for 30 years now and it always happens like that. Nos. A/fuel and Jr./Fuel used to have large fields till money worked in, A/F barely has car count and J/F has an outsider put up the purse because only 4-5 cars show up, combining car count from the early years to the original players still in it 50 racers is down to 2 racers out of the combined total of 16 cars that run today.

 

i built my alteted because i wanted to stay in the hobby, wanted somthing simple, no time for or interest in a street car and could not afford to build a gasser

 

I am considering this a hobby, not a business. I'm sure that Quain heard a lot of the same criticisms. I am listening, but please keep in mind that this is only for bragging rights. I just want to have like minded guys that love the vintage drag racing era, get together and run heads up. Consider it exhibition if you will. Put on a good show for the fans and thrash on our cars. Help each other get faster.
I can't afford to go every weekend. I could maybe go 4 times a year. Hit a few drags, the hamb drags, the meltdown etc.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

Where do I start.
First off thanks for the kind words from everybody. I used this comment for my reply because Roothawg is right I did get a lot of Criticism and still do at times. Also I think he is thinking right and has some good ideas and I'm willing to help in anyway I can because I think it's a good idea IF DONE RIGHT.
Now my thoughts on what is being said by some on Roothawgs idea.

NO INDEX OR BREAKOUT OF ANY KIND that's what's wrong with dragracing now. Having an index or breakout is the easy way out for the man in charge but is not in anyway fan friendly. Most deals that have an index tries to hide the fact so the fans won't know. As soon as they figure it out and they will the stands will be empty unless it's a tag along show to some big show. Think about it, how many times has anyone advertised to the fans that the racers will loose if they go to fast. Let me say I before someone starts, I have friends that bracket race and I respect the different talent that it takes but it has no place in mid 1960's style racing. 1/2 the tracks back then didn't even have clocks.

Can't use the old nhra rule book. For example a modern day pro mod can be built from the 1967 NHRA Gas class rule book. Nothing there says you can't have a 16 X 36 rear tire. Nothing there says you can't have a strut front end. Nothing there says you can't have a 6 foot long wheelie bar. Nothing there says you can't have Nitrous oxide. Nothing there says you can't have the nose 3" off the ground. Y'all get the picture. You can use it as a guide line but it has to be completely rewritten.

Don't leave anything to an opinion. For example you can't say no long wheelie bars, that will get you in trouble at the first race because long to one person is not the same as it is to another. Put a solid number everything.

When i started (going on 7 years ago) there was just one car (Anglia) and it was mine. I built it only to find there was no where to race it. Tons of gasser groups but I could just take my Pro Mod car to most of them because it had a 1963 vette body mounted on it. I couldn't even find a Gasser Group that required the GASser to run gas. I always thought that was rule number one.

IF I COULD START OVER
I would have the cut off date somewhere around 1962. I would have the tire size 10" instead of 11.5". I would have the rear rim width 8.5" instead of 10". The rules would be a lot stricter and anyone that is following us can see that each year I'm headed in that direction.

Roothawg you are on the right track but you will have a long rocky road ahead just like i did. The only thing I can do to help is tell you the things i did wrong (and it's a lot) and tell you the things I did right (not much). Hope you have a lot of money because no one can imagine what I have spent over the last 6 year and it's just now starting to turn the corner. As most know I don't charge an entry fee for driver and 2 crew and I don't charge any type membership fee. So far every dime has came from my bank account. Not charging any type fee to the racers the more cars the more it cost me. For example 20 cars I could handle myself, now 60 cars and 3 classes I have to have a 6 person paid crew at every race. If it was a bracket race or a big test and tune like some I could still do it myself. Racing first to the finish line wins is more involved that anyone can imagine, and takes a lot of effort from the man in charge.

Good luck and let me know if I can help
~Quain Stott~

 

Cheaper fun is what it sounds like to me.
Don't need a big heavy trailer or a big tow rig.
Easy to work on.

 

Well said Quain. I know the super human hours you have put in . Even telling a friend his car was illegal had to be tough.
You take every call. Answer every question and stick to your guns on every decision.
Roothawg you need to call Quain and talk to him if you truly want to do this.
Index racing is bracket racing. Modern concessions for safety should be your only concession.
There is a place for an altered class , but not a watered down organization the allows a super gas roadster without fenders to run as an altered.
Look at the Hot Rod reunion at the Gas Class. A bunch of Top Sportsman cars in the higher classes.
You are going to get a bunch of modern Super Pro roadsters wanting to run a nostalgic race.

 

Thanks Quain. I may be giving you a call.

 

I be glad to help if i can but if i was you i would run as far as i could from it. i raced since 1975 and only made one long term enemy that whole time, stated the gasser deal and I now thing the whole world hates me. Same thing will happen to you if you do it right.

 

Just know that guys that love the vintage racing scene appreciate what you're doing. Everyone else doesn't matter.

 

Exactly right. Below is one of our slogan's
SOME PEOPLE CAN'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE, WE ARE LOOKING TO IMPRESS THE ONES THAT CAN.

 

Everyone has an opinion. The truth is this is your kid and you can do what you want to try to hit that moving target. I would love to be part of it but my location excludes me so I wish you the best and hope it all comes together.

 

Bingo - my car fits on a single axle 5'x12' aluminum trailer......the whole rig weighs around 2000lbs - easy to store and tow as i dont own a pickup

 

I do appreciate all the comments and input.