Hot Rods Am I the only one who gets a tightened sphincter when using those "modern lift plates"?.........

I 'have' one.........and I used it a couple times but those tiny bolts screwed into an Aluminum intake make me break out in a cold sweat. Especially when the engine is up and I'm under it!
How bout ch 'all?!
6sally6

 

Couldn't drive a 10 penny nail if I had to use one of those plates

 

That’s why I will not use them.
Leave the intake off or even with it on you can use the chain equipped levellers that are much safer and versatile in that you can adjust the way the engine hangs as you get it in place.

 

I made one a number of years ago and haven't worried too much about it. If the studs/bolts are threaded into good holes deep enough and the plate is tight to the intake there shouldn't be near the issue as having the chain (with special ends or not) hooked to a couple of 3/8 bolts in shear. I've seen about five engines drop over the past 50 years because the chain was on a bolt in shear that wasn't tightened down. Actually I have seen the end results of three and watched one fall from across the shop and had an engine we had pulled out of a donor fall each time because the bolt broke. One destroyed a pretty expensive pan on a 426 Hemi but I got there when they had finally got it on the stand and were pulling the pan. That one dropped after he had taken it off the engine stand after redoing it. Too many Budweisers during the build may have been the real issue there.

 

Never bothered me, SBC's with TH350's/400's out at once, cast iron or Aluminum intakes.
Should we now be concerned?

 

I use one all the time and have never had a problem. And yes, I use them with aluminum intakes. I’ve even pulled engines and transmissions together with them.


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Like he said...you have to have a good understanding of the tensile strength of bolts, threads, etc. I made my own plate decades ago, and have used it many times, with zero issues. I make sure there is at least 3/4" thread engagement on four grade 5 or 8 5/16" screws, into good threads. And I never get under any engine that's hanging from a hoist...the seal in the jack is even scarier than the plate

 

A machine shop owner friend of mine made me one with several attaching points. This way you could get the angle you needed for a smooth install. That was all he ever used and moved more engines in a week than most see in a year. I have never heard of one breaking or failing.

 

Ever see how much force it takes to break a 5/16 or M6 bolt?
Never mind 4 tightened down
Yeah I’m ok.

look at vehicle manufacturers specifications on torquing fasteners.
You will be surprised at how little torque is actually required in most instances to keep things tight and secure.

 

^^^^^^^ TRUE THIS

 

If you spend days and hours port matching manifolds and gaskets you will find other ways to lift the motor.

 

I have used them quite a few time on some international 345s and 304s. Never had any problems with them but I can see the concern. I never had to really work under one just using it to pull in and out of the engine bay


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Don’t think I would crawl under one in use

 

A quick Google search shows that a single Grade 5, 5/16" NC bolt has 4450 pounds "Proof Load", whatever that is, and 6300 pounds minimum tensile strength. Again, this is in ideal conditions, straight loading.

It's a good general rule to never get under a load that's being lifted. Any uptown jobsite will be pretty insistent on this.
There's many things that can cause a load to come down, by accident, miscommunication, etc.

 

I have one that I have never used. It's not the tensile strength of the bolts I worry about, but the strength of the threads in the aluminum manifold. I wouldn't hesitate to use one on a cast iron manifold...

 

The standard thread engagement criteria on lifting apparatus used in steel erection and machinery
lifting is 1 1/2 times the bolt diameter. Also there
are standards regarding shoulder seating and shank
of bolt extending above the last thread. I would be
more concerned with an aluminum manifold or such
having the thread pull out more than a quality bolt
failing when tightened properly. Also an over tightened
bolt can cause internal thread damage. Having worked
as a certified heavy lift supervisor these aspects had to
be carefully considered and verified on every lift we made. Tedious but necessary. I feel the assurance of using good bolts as opposed to the often encountered
inferior grade is a big safety hazard for most of us garage or shop guys. I often see guys successfully
lift motors from the carb flange on an aluminum
manifold. I will not lift the 392 hemi in my shop
from the aluminum manifold not even using all18
mounting points! Just my opinion.

 

Removed and installed a 460 attached to a C-6 with one that had a aluminum intake with no problems.

 

Actually....even when I have an engine on a stand working the bottom end - I hook up a lift....just because it's there to use......

 

I think that they are a bit scary to me, but that didn't stop me from lifting the body off my car with two 1/4" bolts. Didn't want to poke a larger hole, it did work, and I'm still alive to tell the story.

 

I haven't been killed using one so it must be a good idea seems to be the popular answer.

 

I built a heavy duty lifting plate years ago, no problems. What scares me on some of those current lifting plates is the cheesy welds they have on them. That scares me more that the bolt and thread argument. But I disagree with torquing the bolts to specs. That just “ loads” the bolt and threads more, now that’s really not a problem as the capacity of the bolt is more that enough. But it’s not necessary, just snug them down , maybe 10 ft/lbs, is all you need. No reason to put extra strain on the bolts and aluminum threads by torquing the bolt to 30 ft/lbs or so.






Bones

 

The plate I use is one I made out of 1/4” plate steel. I made it probably 25-27 years ago and not knowing any better, and just out of tech school with a welding class, I used a Lincoln buzz box with 6013 rods and made three passes on each side. One of my heroes, a man by the name of Jon Kinzenbaw, said “When in doubt, build it stout”. I drilled mine with all of the popular 2 and 4 barrel carb patterns. Shit, I wouldn’t be afraid to use mine on a B model Cummins if I could figure out how to attach it.


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I was about 14 years old (1958) when I witnessed a mechanic in a repair garage, that tolerated me hanging around, install a reman SBC using one 1/4” valve cover bolt on each side to install it in the car. Young and as inexperienced as I was, it made me really nervous! But he got it in place with no breakage.

Not that I recommend that approach, I do not. But decades later, I will use a lifting plate with four quality bolts/nuts, properly tightened, to R&R an engine. I do not do so with a trans attached. Nor do I place my body or limbs in a path of the engine should something not go according to plan.

Ray

 

The physics doesn't seem logical, but everything has its weak link that's why you'll never catch this 300lb man on a carnival ride

 

I only use studs on carbs so it doesn’t bother me much.

 

Here's the one that I made.

 

Quality studs and nuts with hardened washers on a plate are fine.
Picked up a three hole Spectre carb lift plate years ago, used it countless times.
Let a not too car guy friend borrow it, got a call later he was having trouble removing his engine.

• Plate bolted to the carb pad
• Cherry picker arm fully extended with a lovely bow in it
• Ram still under pressure
• Front suspension near its max extension, looking like a lowrider nose up.

Apparently, he thought engines 'just sat' on the mounts'.
Plate actually didn't look too bad, the hole where the hook was through was slightly oblong, but the plate itself was not bowed.
Chucked it anyway and got a new one.

And never get under a hanging/suspended load.

 

Well, that is quite stout! Only downside I see is it requires an engine hoist to lift the lifting plate..

Ray

 

Ah, sissy engines...… Flattys can be lifted safely with only two bolts......blessed by 'ole Henry himself.....