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Am I searching in vain for Cadillac 429 Speed Parts?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Abomination, Nov 20, 2006.

  1. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Boy, I need to tickle your brains a minute.

    As a 429 owner, I, for one, feel like I'm stuck between the 390 and the 472/500 with no cool stuff to be had. These motors certainly aren't crappy, but how come there's a huge lack of awesome stuff for us 429 guys?

    I've pretty well narrowed down the fact that a 390 intake will NOT fit a 429, but does anybody know how dissimilar they are? Are they close enough that an adapter might solve this problem? Was there EVER any nifty speed stuff made for the 429 that anybody knows about?

    BTW, I know about the stuff that lakeheaders has, especially about the flanges, and I've heard about a valley cover (who made these is beyond me), but that's about it.

    Has anybody heard of anything other than this? Are there others out there in my same shoes?

    ~Jason
     
  2. What you have is a four-year motor, built for a car that did not entertain the performance crowd, and for far too short a period to make it profitable to build performance products for it.
    Even the 472-500 motor took a long time before anyone built performance products for it, and it lasted until the 1983* model year, for a total of 16 years in production.
    Cosmo
    *Don't give me shit about the 4.1 being the only motor for 1982 and '83; the limo and hearse chassis used the V8-6-4 for those two years...
     
  3. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Granted.

    I've also heard that this is the final incarnation of the 390, poked and stroked out as far as it would go, but the parts seem different enough that this doesn't seem to be so.

    I've also heard that the last of the 429s were different somehow.

    My main goal here is to:

    1. Find out about the existence of any performance parts ever made for the 429

    And

    2. See what performance parts can be bolted on or can be made to work (with an adapter, etc) on the 429.

    Why am I into this motor? I have a '60 Cadillac coupe - this motor (which is in it, by the way), is the closest thing to a bolt-in I could find, and the 472/500 installations have scared me off, what with all the crossmember butcherings and all. I had considered a Northstar, but that means a new crossmember and a relocated water pump (and other assorted weirdness).

    Why am I not running a 390? It didn't come with a motor, and the 429 was readily available, so I ran it.

    ~Jason


     
  4. Not completely in vain, but not an easy road either...

    I still have a 429 that I am considering running in my '29 coupe, but the reason I still have it is because I swapped it for a '70 472 (in a '65 coupe deville that I just sold.... sniff, sniff)

    What I found when looking for performance parts:

    You can have a cam ground if you can supply specs to the grinder. They even said there were some new (not regrind) billets available a few years back. I was talking to a wholesale engine supply house called "motor wherehouse", but I think they were dealing with comp cams.

    The 390 intake is too wide but not by a lot, I seem to remember it being 1/4" to 1/2" but that was quite a while ago. Other than the width they are the same, so if you find a log manifold (4x2, or 6x2...) for the 390 you can bolt it on, or you could cut and weld an old aluminum one to fit.

    Pertronix ignitors (points replacement) work (and quite well from my experience).

    Charlie Price used to stock a bunch of cool old stuff for 390's and a few for these, but it seems as though he may only have new stuff these days. I seem to remember his company being called "vintage speed".

    If you want the car to be fast, build a different motor. If you love the style, torque and mileage of the 429, stick with simple mods like a carb (with an adapter plate and some porting), ignition, and maybe some headers.

    If you are considering a swap to the later 472, I may be able to assist you further.
     
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  5. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    I've seen a 429 with a '58-'60 tripower on it, so it must have been a matter of milling a small amount of material from either the intake gasket surfaces, or the heads.
     
  6. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    So (just to be clear), the 390 and the 429 intake bolt patterns are the same, and the only thing preventing a 390 intake from bolting to a 429 is that it's 1/4" to 1/2" too wide (something a simple milling or transfer of intake flanges would solve)?

    ~Jason


     
  7. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Take some width measurements on your 429 intake and give them to me. I'll measure a 390 intake I've got and you can compare the figures to see what direction you'd have to go. Also, if you ever see an old Mallory distributor with a number of 477, grab it--it's for your engine.
     
  8. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

  9. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Also, I've seen some finned valve covers for the 390 - will those swap off? For that matter, what other 390 parts are interchangeable (with or without modification) with the 429?

    ~Jason
     
  10. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Thanks, will do! I'm anxious to see if that intake will swap - that'll solve a lot of parts issues.

    ~Jason

     
  11. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Also, could somebody elaborate on this post by Cadillacin Marcus?
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7824&&showall=1:

    6x2's by Weiand and Edelbrock again rule especially the Dragstar by Weiand and the Edelbrock CA-6 they are high rise look bitchin,thats for all out balls to the walls throttle,one purpose only Fuel and more fuel.The Offy is ok but they are low rise only,Cragar made a cool low rise to.The 6x2 will fit the 63-67 390/429's as well, the deck width on these engines are narrower just cut the 5/8" fuel hose to fit and voila!
     
  12. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    No, the valve covers are way off. About the only choice on that is to have a straight pair of stock covers chromed.
     
  13. ben_shady1
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 33

    ben_shady1
    Member
    from Arkansas

    I was told by the guys at cad500parts.com they have rocker assemblies which are like 1.72.1 some offy valve covers and a finned valley pan for the 429. Camcraftcams.com has a cam listed for our motors that has a lil more lift and duration than the stock one... That's about all I have found in the couple years of searching... Here's some of the e-mail I got from cad500parts.com a couple weeks back..

    For performance parts, most people do a cam kit (with lifters, springs, etc), and a rocker upgrade if it’s a ’67, and a carb upgrade if it’s not a ’67. The ’67 has T-pedestal mounted rockers instead of a shaft rocker system, and the ’67 has a Q-jet, while the earlier ones had some really obscure Carter and Rochester carbs (predecessors to the Q-jet and AFB, respectively) that are impossible to find parts for.

    Headers have to be custom built – there are none in production. There are no aftermarket intakes that bolt right up.

    An electronic pickup conversion to get rid of the points in the distributor is usually a good idea for reliability (and performance if you aren’t an expert at tuning points).

    For dress up, we have finned valve covers and finned valley covers (the flat plate under the intake), and a billet water neck. We have chrome power steering pumps, as well. You can get a chrome or billet oil fill cap/ breather for one of the other early GM engines with a similar oil fill tube configuration I think, but we don’t carry them....

    The ’67 shaft rockers are $675, and I think they are 1.72:1 (I‘ll have to check to be sure). I think we are the only place that sells them, but I could be wrong. You can’t use the stock ’63-’66 rocker assemblies, because they oil through the head via a pressure passage, and the ’67 block/ heads do not have it.
    On the earlier Caddy engine (’62 and older) it is a fairly easy thing to adapt an early Nailhead intake. The same might be true of the later Nailheads (i.e. the 401/425), but I don’t know for sure.

     
  14. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Whoops! I meant VALLEY covers... My mistake, sorry.

    That'll teach me to watch Star Trek (TOS) and post at the same time. Thank God for TiVo... maybe I should pause it next time. :)

    ~Jason


     
  15. I've got a pair of 6x2 log intakes...one a Weiand Dragstar and the other an Offenhauser. Both supposedly bolt up to '49 to '67.
     
  16. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Really? They maintained the same bolt pattern for that long?

    I wonder what great swaps could be done with those on Oldsmobile motors...

    What are the part numbers? I'll keep on the lookout for one of those.

    ~Jason


     
  17. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    I dropped them a line today, too. In their FAQ section they have something about carrying parts for the 429 other than stock - I asked them what kind.

    Until then, I await a response from 'em to see.

    Thanks for the tip!

    ~Jason


     
  18. ben_shady1
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 33

    ben_shady1
    Member
    from Arkansas

    I talked to Chris.... He seemed like he knew his stuff... They will get back to ya pretty quick... Or at least they got back to me pretty quick...
     
  19. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Actually, he did. Here's the email trail:

    Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:02 PM
    To: flshcd@earthlink.net
    Subject: 429 Stuff

    I saw this on the site:

    Q: What parts does Cad Company sell ?
    A: Just about every single piece and parts you'll ever need. to hotrod,
    upgrade, overhaul, race and tow these great Lux Motors. That includes parts
    for all the motors from 1968 through 1979, 472", 500" and 425" models.
    Currently, we don't sell anything for the 4.1L, 4.5L, or Northstar, and only
    OE type replacement parts for 331", 368", 390" and 429" motors, but we are
    working on a parts program for later this year.

    I'm one of many with the 429 looking for nifty speed and finned aluminum
    parts - will this be what the "parts program" you're referring to entail, or
    will it be only stock replacement parts?

    ~Jason

    Jason
    The readily available stuff for the 429, aside from stock replacement parts,
    currently includes:
    Finned aluminum valve covers
    Finned aluminum valley covers (the flat plate under the intake)
    Billet water necks
    Performance cams (hydraulic or solid)
    Performance rockers and adjustable rockers for solid cams
    Performance valve springs
    Oversized valves
    Complete ported and assembled heads
    Better carbs (stuff you can get service parts for)
    and Electronic ignition conversions

    The next thing to become available will probably be header flanges, followed
    by bolt on headers.

    Chris
    Cad Company
    8333 Jefferson St NE
    Albuquerque, NM 87113
    Phone: 505.823.9340
    Fax: 505.797.0627
    http://www.cad500parts.com


    I asked him what 429 stuff would swap off onto a '63 390, and for some prices. He should get back to me tomorrow.

    ~Jason

     
  20. ben_shady1
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 33

    ben_shady1
    Member
    from Arkansas

    Right on! Just need a price sheet now!
     
  21. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

  22. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Here you go!

    Some parts are interchangeable, some are not. Almost everything we have for
    the 429 is also available all the way back to at least '51. Some parts
    interchange all the way through, some are different every few years.

    Pricing:
    $275 polished, $295 unpolished (different brands)> Finned valve covers
    $125 unpolished > Finned aluminum valley covers > Billet water necks
    $199 and up > Performance cams (hydraulic or solid)
    $349 and up > Performance rockers and adjustable rockers for solid cams
    $89 and up > Performance valve springs
    $160 and up (set of 16 stainless) > Oversized valves
    $1295 and up exchange > Complete ported and assembled heads
    $400 and up > Better carbs (stuff you can get service parts for)
    $119 and up > Electronic ignition conversions

    Thanks for the tip on Lake Headers. I will definitely be contacting them.

    Chris
    Cad Company
    8333 Jefferson St NE
    Albuquerque, NM 87113
    Phone: 505.823.9340
    Fax: 505.797.0627
    http://www.cad500parts.com


    And yes, I turned him on to Matt over at http://www.lakeheaders.com and his intake & exhaust flanges. He seemed interested in offering headers, etc.

    ~Jason


     
  23. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Well, Chris must've talked to Matt. He just emailed me back:

    Now added to the list -
    Header flanges - $129 - should be in stock in a week or 2, and thereafter
    Lakes style headers - $395
    multicarb log style intakes - $550 and up finished, also available in kit
    form.

    Chris
    Cad Company
    8333 Jefferson St NE
    Albuquerque, NM 87113
    Phone: 505.823.9340
    Fax: 505.797.0627
    http://www.cad500parts.com
     
  24. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    BTTT for the afternoon crowd.

    ~Jason
     
  25. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    I would be interested to see finned aluminum valve covers that fit the '63-'67 engines; I've never known them to exist.
     
  26. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    I believe that the ones Chris sells are Offys. You should email him and see if they have a picture - he's really, really good at getting back to people.

    ~Jason


     
  27. ben_shady1
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 33

    ben_shady1
    Member
    from Arkansas

    He's got some with offy on them and he's got some without... Good lookin out Jason... maybe we will find some good stuff before it's all said and done... I'll post everything I find on here... I've been lookin high and low for an Intake for my 67 429 maybe by spring I'll find something... I'm tryin to clean up under the hood of my calais and an intake would be great... I don't think I have enough hood room for a log style intake like lakeheaders has and if I cut the hood it'll be for a 6-71 sticking out.... maybe I'll get lucky.. who know's.
     
  28. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    No problem, man. Anything I can do to help the cause.

    By the way, Matt probably makes those log manifolds one-at-a-time - if you order one, why not give him some measurements and see if he can make it real short? You can always email him and see what he can and can't do.

    ~Jason

     
  29. ben_shady1
    Joined: Nov 10, 2006
    Posts: 33

    ben_shady1
    Member
    from Arkansas

    I wish he could make one that just had 3 carbs with like one log in the middle... I'm too cheap to buy four or 6 carbs....lol I wish I could get a BB ford or something to bolt up then I could pinch some pennies and buy a blower.. I think that would be the ultimate.. a chrome blower sticking out of the hood of a laid out caddy... Brings a tear to me eye... lmfao
     
  30. Abomination
    Joined: Oct 5, 2006
    Posts: 6,700

    Abomination
    Member

    Not there's a possibility I hadn't considered! Hell, I'd go for a 3X2 in a heartbeat!

    Like it says, they're called "U-Fab"... maybe if a hole saw met a log, and a welder met six runners and a pair of flanges it could well happen!

    ~Jason

     

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