I just finished reading a post where the postee stated he was going to run aluminum brake lines, I've been doing hot rods a longggggggggggg time and aluminum or copper were not used because of line pressure??? double flare failure ??? to use soft metals for brakes was a no no. there must have been a reason because copper and aluminum bend and flare better than steel , BUT..is it safe.
I'm not aware of any aluminum tubing rated for that pressure. The highest pressure I've seen aluminum tubing used in is air conditioning systems that can run over 400 psi.
I was trained professionally as a heavy duty mechanic to only use steel tubing for brake lines, and to always use a double flare. However, that is old school, and I haven't turned wrenches for pay for a couple of decades. Apparently things have changed, and now the hot tip on brake lines, and I've learned this here on the HAMB, is copper-nickel tubing, with no double flare. Easier to work with, resists corrosion better, and strong enough for the job. But aluminum? No, I don't think so. Unless something else has changes and there is a new aluminum alloy being used for brake lines. I did a google search and came up with nothing on that. Here's an article on the copper-nickel brake tubing: http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html
Why not use stainless steel line for brakes? Strong, looks good and corrosion proof. http://www.inlinetube.com/#!straight-length-tubing/c1lyw Although some may not think it traditional.
Yes, it was said that with the copper-nickle lines the double flare can actually cause splitting. If you can clarify that please do.
NHRA rules mandate steel lines and fittings, I expect DOT requires steel too. I do think .035 aluminum is rated plenty high, aircraft and spacecraft are full of it. Probably because copper and aluminum can crack easier than steel or stainless is why they are avoided.
Well I've searched the net trying to find info on this, and everything I've found states that a double flare, or a bubble flare, depending on type of fitting (SAE or ISO) is to be used on brake lines. I've found nothing that says not to use a double flare on copper-nickel brake tubing. So, either the person who posted that has other info, or I misunderstood them (quite possible). Can't find that thread now.
The Germans have used DIN fittings, which are straight tube with a cutting ring like compression fittings use since the 1930s with pressures up to 10,000 psi.
It would be safer if the government mandated stainless steel for brake and fuel lines with the way they rust out these days. There are companies that make stainless steel brake lines and fuel lines. I bought a set for my snowplow truck. The cost for stainless steel isn't that much higher than steel. 50 ft of 1/4" steel line is around $30 and Stainless is about $52. What is a life worth? When the fuel pump was on the engine, if the lines rusted along the frame rail, the pump would suck air and the engine quits. You might get some seepage with the engine off but it will drip on the ground. Today, with the fuel pump in the tank pushing pressures up to 60psi, a leak becomes an aerosol spray. The lines usually rust on top where the dirt, snow and salt sit so it bathes the bottom of the vehicle in gasoline.
Besides that, I always wondered why they mandate brake fluid that rots everything it touches. Why not use light weight hydraulic oil like airplanes do?
Because government agencies are run by accountants who know nothing about anything else. I don't know if Duesenberg or Lockheed chose the fluid in the early 1900s but the DOT keeps us stuck with it despite of there being better choices today.
In Sweden they went thru an evaluation process and found the plated brazed steel brake tubing had a life of not that many years. Just like in Massachusetts. So they came up with the copper nickel stuff. Volvo started using it around 1977 or so. I think several of the European makes are using it now too. It lasts GREAT and is far easier to work than the SS lines a buddy bought for his Corvette. (and rework, as several of the OEM aftermarket name brand flares leaked). Yield strength, etc compared to copper brazed steel tubing here - http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html As to why the US gummint has not mandated the copper nickel, I believe there is a conspiracy. I know of 2 1996 vintage vehicles that were scrapped in large part due to extensive brake line corrossion, and much newer cars were bought that might otherwise not have been. If I were an auto manufacturer I'd like that.
I bought SS because it dosen't [re shouldn't] corrode like the last batch of steel which the coating [may be zinc?] started to oxidize in two weeks..I had'nt planned on any polishing but they said it could be flared and came with a bunch of nuts...My double flare tool would not touch it...
Scrap a car for brake line corrosion? What charmed lives some Mechanics lead! LoL I remember buying my old 2002 Dodge Caravan in 2006 and replacing 2 rear lines...the oil pan, transmission pan, trans side pan, coolant transfer tube AND the thermostat thingamabob due to extreme rust! Rest of the van was fine but all the black powdercoated parts had basicly melted right off the engine. Just another thing to inspect yearly in the rust zone.... I havent been able to find any of that copper/nickel line around here yet, but I will definately be trying it once I do.
Most auto parts stores handle it. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...e&jsid=34339&gclid=CL7e7s2ShcsCFQcLaQodd0oJWQ
I had to replace every brake line on my 99 pickup. They put those spring coils on the outside, I assume to keep them from kinking when bending, and that spring steel rusts and accelerates the brake line rusting.
On the flares, I have always been told double flare 45* on SAE fittings, single flare 37* on AN fittings, no matter if using regular or stainless steel. Don't know on the copper-nickle stuff, but I would figure the same rules apply....
I used the 3/16 Nicopp with double 45 flare fittings for the brake lines and 3/8 NiCopp with 37* AN fittings for the fuel supply and return lines. Double flares on the NiCopp are easier than steel. I found the 3/8 at Jegs or Summit. Only had one leak, and that turned out to be a bad fitting, not the flare
The springs are to protect the line from gravel rash, not to help with bending, and all flares in brake lines must be double flared or ISO flare, at least here in Canada
Stuff like this is very enlightening. I really never pay much attention to brake lines unless I am adding disc brakes. I do look, but for the most part they are always pretty nice and no rust. Heck, the original lines on my 41 Buick look like factory fresh. I will now take note if I buy a car from the other side of the Rockies. I guess we are spoiled here in SoCal.
Actually I believe the new stuff is CuNiFer (cooper, nickel, an iron) from the periodic table. Easy to use and rust resistant. I believe in double flares as OEM.
It's a good thing I didn't know anything about the dangers of 50 year old brake lines, hoses, and single pot master cylinder or I'd have been killed for sure. Drove down mountain passes in wintertime out West and the rest of it. About 25k miles worth. The new stuff is sometimes called "nicopp" and has a sort of greenish enamel? I replaced the entire brake system, including the hard lines, everything except the pedal.
Here in Norway they salt the roads ALOT in the winter. Resulting in the steel brake lines corroding away pretty fast. I've also seen evidence of pitting on the lines, almost like they corrode from the inside? Anyway, they almost exclusively sell the copper nickel stuff over here.
I have had 2 brake failures due to rusted lines. The first time was with a single reservoir master and the failure was instant. I went for toads wild ride losing the spare out from under my truck due to pot holes and severe bouncing down the hill. The second time was with a dual circuit master. The brakes were almost on the floor but would still stop albeit poorly but I made it home safely. I distrust old brake lines and check them when I get a vehicle of any age. There are 3 commonly sold line materials and then stainless in different grades and hardness. I have used the zinc plated steel line for years and is it a good product. I tried the green coated lines and was unimpressed with its tendency to kink even when using a bender. I just finished a system in the copper/nickel line and was able to do the whole thing without a bender and it double flares nicely. Stainless line is a total PITA in my opinion. It has a welded seem that needs to be burnished with a stone cut at the 37 degree angle for A/N fittings. It is hard to bend if you don't buy the annealed stuff. It needs to be used with a 37 degree single flare and A/N fittings that usually need to have adapters to 45 degree inverted flare. The reason for the 37 degree single flare and a backup collar is so the stainless tubing won't split.
I'm using a lot of the OG brake lines on my Ford. I had a couple of the front ones off and took a close look at them, helps that the rest of the car has zero rust. Any I replaced I got off the rack at Napa, flared real nicely, no leaks either.
For '99 to '07 full size Chevy or GMC P/Us, check with a GM dealer for a "brake pipe kit". Offered for most truck models in this range of years with pre-formed pipes, fittings and flares. Usually $150 or less for the package.
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