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Alternative to Lizardskin??

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tugmaster, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. I've been following a thread over on Chevytalk and I thought I would share it and see what you think.

    From what I read Lizardskin is basically paint with microsheres mixed in. I'm sure sveryone know that this shit is big bucks.
    Well there are two different places that sell the microspheres that you can mix with your own paint and get the same? results.

    www.heatshield-r20.com $17.00 for a bag

    www.hytecsales.com $11.95 for a bag

    They both claim it can be mixed with just about any paint and offers excellent insulating properties.

    Todd
     
  2. reverb2000
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 440

    reverb2000
    Member
    from Houston TX

    hmmmmm verrry interesting...anyone know anymore about this?
     
  3. LUX BLUE
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,408

    LUX BLUE
    Alliance Vendor
    from AUSTIN,TX

    I have been playing with "The skin" all week...it's more than just paint. (I finally figured out how to get it to lay flat. p.i.t.a right up until I went the basic route- the 'ol19.95 Harbor freight grvity fed primer gun. no shit...)

    number 1, the stuff will just about knock you down if you get a good breath of it. the shop air has been stagnant and stupid humid for 2 days now, and I inadvertantly "dosed" myself by opening the bucket while seated over it. whew! strong stuff.

    it has the same qualities as the 3m rocker panel spray- translucent blue when wet, turns black when dry, and is water soluable. here's what I have found.

    they say 1 gallon covers 25 square feet. horsepoop. with the spray gun, I got the same build as reccomended (somethin like 35 mils) and it covers nice. I could spray the entirety of an interior with 1 bucket and have a bunch left over. I think the secret to logevity will be top coating it with a good expoxy like Kimball Midwest, Eastwood, or something like that. as when it dries, you can rub on it a while and get it to degrade a bit.a little abrasion resistance is a good thing, as Martha would say.

    #2- it mixes easy enough without a "mixing paddle" as reccomended. granted I started with half a bucket, so i didn't have to stick my hand in there, but a 5 gallon bucket mixing stick would fit the bill.

    air pressure is everything. I got it to lay right with a 1.8 tip at 50 p.x.i at the gun.

    and yes, it works aces. this stuff is cool. I think thier trying to make you buy thier special equipment is a bit half handed, but this monkey figgered it out. I am gonna use it in my car.
     
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  4. LUX BLUE - are you using the Lizardskin brand stuff? Have you used it before and did you like the results?

    Are you saying that the coverage is better or worse than the 1 gallon/25 sq. ft.?
     
  5. anyone have pics? i've never heard of this stuff.
     
  6. LUX BLUE
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,408

    LUX BLUE
    Alliance Vendor
    from AUSTIN,TX

    yep, the brand name stuff- and yes, it gets better coverage than they say.

    The gun they want to sell you is similar to a "Schutz" gun used for undercoating and whatnot. (read- a great big freakin mess.) When I worked at a high end shop (like Ferrari high end) some customers would want the rockers done in the chip resistant stuff, but dislikes the "rough" look of it, so we figured out how to shoot it "conventionally" (well, sort of. you ever tried to put a lamborghini on Jackstands? it is right up there with this term-"severed scrotum")
    to get it smooth. I just applied that principal to this goo.

    it's pretty thin, in all actuality. like mixed primer. so I thought of it as a thick substrate with metal flake in it- keep the gun agitated (it "skins over" sretty quick, kinda like latex paint.) and make sure you give it a good flash time betwwen coats, mixing the bucket before dumping it into the gun, and keeping the gun "wet" (usually thinner, but in this case,water) between coats to prevent anything from drying in the cup. I sprayed 3 thinner coats rather than 1 heavy one, and ended up with a pretty nice overall finish. and it only took a minute to wash it out of my arm hair.:D ( I duplicated shooting under a dash by spraying in a large box) onch it dried, I cut the box apart in several places and measured. uniform in 6 places! (I only measured in 6 places) the only "hinky moments" were in the corners, but i chock that up to "normal" as it built more on the sides than in the actual valley. I am sure I could have fine tuned it some more...but again, box. not a dash.

    the actual parts I have sprayed layed out the same way. it's basic spraying technique, spray OUT of a corner, and INTO a valley.

    I can't imagine anyone having a real difficult time with it.

    and i gotta say, for absolute silence, the Dynamat is still king. it's basic math...dynamat-1/8th inch thick, heavy, and if you've ever tried to get it off of anything, you know thier adhesive is tits.

    hell, even the lizardskin website doesn't do a comparison to it- they only touch on what they call "mat type" insulation, which is the aluminum foil covered glue on stuff. (which I dislike greatly. it's reeeally flamable.) Dynamat is spendy, but there are low (er) cost alternatives to it, like Roadkill, and a few others.

    and the absolute king of the ring is the Dynamat Extreme- but it's priced like it. it amounts to a lead/aluminum skin over about 1/4 inch of thick, black, tarlike goo. it's a real sumbitch to get in the car, but damn it works wonders. it's nearly impossible to remove, hellish to cut through, and the edges are sharp, but....

    it is also the most dramatic change to the interior of a car I have ever made.the temp differences are huge, the sound difference is outstanding (from both exterior noise and musical standpoints) and even though it's really thick, it doesn't seem to be a huge detriment to panel fit. when it's installed, the car just feels SOLID.
     
  7. LUX BLUE - Thanks for the input, it clears up a lot of questions for me. I think I'll be using Lizardskin on my Packard custom. I want a quiet "solid" ride when it rolls down the road. I don't like the tinny sound of bare body panels and it sounds like this stuff will do the job.
     
  8. LUX BLUE
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 4,408

    LUX BLUE
    Alliance Vendor
    from AUSTIN,TX

    if you want really quiet, do the Lizard skin, then do the insides of the doors and quarters with the dynamat extreme- it's a huge difference.
     
  9. twolane
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 26

    twolane
    Member

    I haven't tried lisardskin but I've had good luck in the past with stuff called "road kill". It seems to be similar to lizard skin but it isn't marketed as a insulator temp wise, but it does work great for sound. It's made to be sprayed on, but I've had the best luck brushing or rolling it on. It's a lot cheaper than lizardskin as well..
     
  10. jbon64
    Joined: Jul 26, 2006
    Posts: 452

    jbon64
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  11. BigChief
    Joined: Jan 14, 2003
    Posts: 2,045

    BigChief
    Member

    Its a little cheaper than Lizard Skin and alot less smelly......

    Go to McMaster-Carr and search on 7873T4.

    Put bed liner on the outside surfaces and this stuff on the floors and firewall.

    -Bigchief.
     
  12. Has anyone ever applied lizardskin with a roller?

    How'd it work??
     
  13. thewildturkey46
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 746

    thewildturkey46
    Member
    from Rice, MN

    I used Lizard Skin in my deuce, it is very quiet and cool on the highway, an easy and cheap way to apply it is to use a cheap (12.99 at Menards) sand blast gun, the type you stick the hose in the bucket, hook up the air hose and go. You might have to thin it a very little bit with water, like a couple of ounces per bucket. It does get much better coverage than they say, I have plenty left over. It is not cheap but does work well.....my 2cents
     
  14. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,821

    Roothawg
    Member

    I am researching this as we speak. TPost may be onto something. It's water based so it can't be too complicated.
     
  15. ROBERT JAM
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,146

    ROBERT JAM
    Member

    I have had it in my 32 sedan for a year or so.I have had many road miles since and it works great as a sound deadner and insulation.Finally got the interior finished and now the car is really quiet.It is great stuff!
     
  16. we spray it in a lot of cars here at our shop we have also brushed it in. works the same in my opinion but it is better to spray it.lizard skin is mainly for heat and dynamate is for sound so we use both in high end cars.

    BTW we also sell it here at the shop for $175 to hambers and $155 to alliance members
    Brant
     
  17. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,821

    Roothawg
    Member

  18. DMB
    Joined: Dec 11, 2008
    Posts: 4

    DMB
    Member

    Has anyone had any experience with Metal Shield? If so how did it work for you? thanks
     
  19. HomemadeHardtop57
    Joined: Nov 15, 2007
    Posts: 4,155

    HomemadeHardtop57
    Member

    Your local auto body/paint supply store should have something called "rocker coat" It's basically the same thing as lizard skin but half the cost. Did the inside of my Chevy with it.
     
  20. dgc15
    Joined: Aug 23, 2007
    Posts: 141

    dgc15
    Member

  21. gonmad
    Joined: May 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,753

    gonmad
    Member

  22. Salty
    Joined: Jul 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,260

    Salty
    Member
    from Florida

    I just bought a 2 gallon bucket of the sound control and a 2 gal bucket of the insulation...read nothin but good about it and got a killer deal...

    I'm really lookin forward to the tightening up of the sound properties on the truck...the bigest part in my book was the fact that unlike a mat type insulation that "can" trap water this is a substrate surface that if prepaired properly will seal and not do the rotting game (of which I'm not a fan of...)
     
  23. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,821

    Roothawg
    Member

    Bump from the dead.

    I am back to this stage myself and I am thinking of trying one of the alternatives to Lizardskin. Kool Coat or metalshield.

    http://www.koolcoat.com/
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  24. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,520

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    I did the Lizard skin and DynaMat ... like LUX BLUE suggested and I am well satisfied

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    One bucket did the firewall, the doors, the floor and the roof of my 32 Ford 3W ... with enough for two coats on the firewall and floor ... all the way from the rear of the coupe to the firewall. IT DOES not RUN AND SAG EASILY ON METAL BUT IT DOES RUN PRETTY EASY ON TAPE OFF masking PAPER :confused:

    I did buy the suggested " Lizard Skin " application spray gun also. Pretty easy to use and apply the " Lizard Skin " IMHO.

    I would do the same thing again if I do another cAR ... :D
     
  25. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,821

    Roothawg
    Member

    I just didn't want water based paint as a barrier. Not a big deal but I thought I might be able to mix in the microspheres into my primer.
     
  26. Special Ed
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 5,386

    Special Ed
    Member

    I used both Lizardskin products (sound & heat) on the entire underside of my '55. I also sprayed the inside of my roof and inner firewall, along with Dynamat Extreme on the floors and inside the doors. I just got it back from the trim shop, and it is deafening how quiet it is! Amazing stuff! I believe you get what you pay for.
     
  27. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 18,821

    Roothawg
    Member

    I just don't believe that it was developed for hot rods. There's always an industrial application for most things. That generally means a "mark-up"for finding that niche.

    Not enough money for R&D in the hot rod market. I'd bet 10 dollars to a hole in a donut that Lizardskin is latex house paint. Not saying it doesn't work, I just don't like to pay full price for anything.
     

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