i am just getting my bags installed on my 50 shoebox anyway it will be a 4 way system with electric valves and a switch box similar to a hydraulic swtchbox my question is if i have no guages how do i make the front level from side to side and same with the rear or do i just have to get the feel for how high i want each side i will be upgrading to a dakota digital ride controller soon but until then ill be with the switchbox and no guages
You could add a switch that fills both bags at the same time. The wiring would be simple and it would be the best way. All you would have to do is add a switch that taps in to the wires from each side. With most systems the box is prewired for this.
well heres the deal, even with gauges..digital or not, its really hard to tell how level you are front to back and side to side. your best bet is to inflate or deflate as necessary, hop out and check from a distance that it is the ride stance you like, then make a mental note of the pressure at each corner for future reference. then when cruising down the road you can just hit the switches 'till each corner is at the pressure you remember (or have written down for htose of us forgetful types). you can also do this with multiple people in the car...put a passenger in it and then check your pressures and desired stance and make a mental note. its a pain but its the only real way to make sure your stance is just the way you like it, as we all know cars arent balanced perfectly 50/50 front/back and side/side. if you want to spend tons of money they make sensors that detect exactly where your suspension is throughout its travel. thats just more complicated. digital gauges are nice but they really dont do THAT much for you except look fancy and put a dent in your wallet, a pair of good quality dual needle gauges work great and look nicer in my opinion as they fit with old cars much better.
All good advice given. I would highly recommend adding 2 dual-needle pressure gauges though. The cost is minimal to add these, and without them you have no way off knowing where you sit. And even if you spent the $$ to go digital, no gauges are 100% accurate either. Not to mention trying to blend in digital gauges to an old car is not real easy. So once you have the system installed, you'll need to air the system up to your ride height, until the gauges "say" all is set level. Then get out, and measure it up to find out where its actually sitting, and adjust til its even & level. Once thats done, like 122 Wagon said, you can make a note(mental note, or even paint a dot on the gauge)of where your ride height is(and what the pressures of each wheel is), and you're set. Good luck Dan
gauges are cheap...I think you can get air ones for around 15 bucks. Matter of fact, I may have one lying around the garage....If I do, I'll send it to ya...
thats NOT nessesarly gona make the car leavel,alot off cars dont sit leavel with equale air presure in each corner.a gauge will tell you say you need 90 in the left front and 105 in the right front to be leavel
i just talked with the installer and he said we are going two way with 4 valves so ill just ahve to raise it up until it doesnt rub until i get some guages and figure out what height i like to roll at but if anyone wants to send me a guage sweet ill take it just pm me do you happen to have the 1/8 line i need and the fitting? thanks! all
I gave up on using gauges to try to level the car because the pressures seemed to vary from day to day and I could never trust that it was level without getting out and looking at it - which really sucked. Now I have Accuair which has telescoping sensors at each wheel that read the distance they are extended. I initially level the car with a tape measure and then when I have it just right I program that into it's little brain by just holding down a button for a few seconds and that height then is pre-programed and the computer will adjust the individual pressures at each corner to make the car level by reading the sensors. Cool part is, that it allows 3 different pre-programed ride heights that you can change back and forth between by just touching a button. Not at all "traditional" I know, but neither are bags, and it beats hell out of f'ing around with air pressures on various gauges (or looking like a dork with a crooked car).
Gauges help, but only give you an idea. the best is to set your car at the height you want it, feels best, rides best, etc....get out, look at it, level it out if you want to, then check you gauges again and remember the pressures. My old truck used to take 10-20 psi more in the left side than the right and 70 psi more in the front than the rear. Having one switch for just the front and just the back helps, but doesnt always level it. Depends on the side to side weight. I drove on bags for 6 years and can tell by the feel if the car was level. You'll eventually get used to it
one thing to keep in mind, when adding air gauges to an old car while attempting to keep the "trad" look on the dash, is that a pressure gauge is a pressure gauge is a pressure gauge. i've used old oil pressure gauges as air gauges with no problems. found it was a good way to test the gauges too. i found gauges that varied one to the other up to 20 PSI! while the dual needle gauges stand out like, well like a modern gauge in an old car, i've yet to have anybody notice the 3 oil pressure gauges under the dash!
I hate to say it but doing it with only 4 valves is a bad way to go. To do it this way, you'll be using 2 valves for the front, and 2 for the rear. Every time you turn, air will transfer from one side to the other, allowing your car to roll horribly, especially when you turn. At bare minimum, you need to at least use 6 valves total to avoid this. You could use 2 valves in the rear, and 4 up front. At least this would keep the roll problem under control. But valves are cheap, even for good ones. You'd be saving maybe $80 to go with 6 valves instead of 8, and you would loose individual corner adjustment, which is real nice for adjustment, ride, and different loads in the car. I guess I am kind of baffled by why the installer would ever recommend using only 4 valves, as its very common knowledge of the roll problems this creates That would make me REAL leary of using that installer. An air suspension is not a thing to do the cheapest way possible imo. Especially when it is the only thing that keeps the frame from crashing to the ground. Since the normal scrub-line rules are so often broken with air suspension to begin with, you need to stack the odds as much in your corner against failure for the obvious safety reasons
For a couple of bucks you could buy a line level that is about 3 inches long and find a flat spot on the dash and level away. Certainly worth a try. Like my wierd uncle used to say, K.I.S.S. which means,keep it simple, stupid.
I was wondering how you guys with bags and no gauges have your alignment done. My truck was static dropped just over a year ago and then aligned. It was too low and I dragged all over the place, so I decided to get bags. The installer was leary of putting gauges in because he said they always leak. So, I never put any in. Well, last week I had to replace my front tires because the insides were wiped out, bald with cord showing. I always thought no big deal, I can replace front tires fairly cheap and easy. Well, these tires lasted just under a year (got about 6000 miles out of 'em). But, I went to Discount Tire to get new skins and new tires with mount and balance came to about $115.00. I know that really isn't that much, but I can figure out alot more to do with that money, especially when you factor in the cost of gas nowadays. Anyway, what are you guys all doing? Especially the guys with expensive WW radials and WW bias plys. Ray, I always wondered if a guy could use mechanical oil pressure gauges for air suspension and now I know. I have the pressure cranked up pretty high in my tank (about 175 psi), so I had to use a high pressure screw in gauge on the tank. I think I might be able to use the oil pressure gauges for the bag pressure though. I can't imagine the pressure in them ever gets close to 175. What's the most pressure you guys run in the bags? E
With a bagged suspension, you can really only have your front end properly aligned at one height only-ride height. The further you adjust your bags from ride height, the more out of alignment things will get. There is no way to keep everything in alignment within the bags full range of motion. If your tires wore on the inside edge, I assume that your truck has some form of independant suspension, and that the camber at your usual ride height was was too great, tilting your tires inward at the top. The best way to get maximum life out of the front tires will be to have the front end aligned at your trucks ride height, and try to drive it as much as possible at that height. As far as the pressure guys run in the bags, its totally unique to each vehicle, as there are a million variables involved-vehicle weight front & rear, type/size of bags used, load in vehicle etc etc. So unless somebody had the exact truck as you, with the same motor/tranny set-up, same bags, installed in the same manner, nobody elses settings would apply. And as far as knowing where and when your vehicle is at ride height, you NEED gauges. No real way around it. I have had many bagged vehicles, some daily driven, and have never had gauges cause me any leakage in any vehicle. Its like anything else, they CAN leak, but installed properly they are no more prone to leakage then any other component in your air setup. Hopefully this helps a little Dan
There is a 4-way bubble used on heavy equipment such as truck cranes and cherry pickers. They help operator level the machine after lowering stabilizers. Same idea as the line level just more accurate.
Theres nothing wrong with wanted to upgrade something down the road to make it better. But setting up a suspension with only 4 valves is just not a correct or safe way to set up a suspension. If he will enjoy having the car shift terribly every time he turns, that will maintain zero side-to-side stability then thats his business. I was not trying to lend an opinion of an upgrade to his set-up, but instead the safe and proper way to do it. And the cost difference to do it correctly only adds $100. Wasn't trying to be a d*ck at all, but just trying to advise him on a subject that I am familiar with, thats all. No harm meant, sorry if I offended
I've had three vehicles on air bags and have found that even with gauges your car will NEVER sit level unless you have a leveling system on it. The last car I had bags on was my 66 cad, and I put an Accuair system on it. It is the only system out there that doesn't use air pressure to level your car. Air pressure can change with weight, air temp, and I'm sure lots of other stuff. The Accuair has height sensors that make it VERY accurate. No gauges needed! I had my car alligned and never had any tire wear problems. I won't have another vehicle on air that doesn't have an Accuair on it. It makes the car way easier to deal with. Their new system is cheaper then Air Ride Techs and Dakota Digitals systems. If you want your car to sit level and not wear tires, I would get one. Their web page is http://www.accuaircontrolsystems.com/product_elevel.html
I'd like to go with the accuair setup...right now I'm just eyeballin it. We do have some gauges below the dash...I think they kinda blend in alright.
i just go off of feel how the truck is rideing .but i probly drive much lower than most i dont mind scrapeing
Here are some pictures of an install we just finished on a '54 F100. He went from a 2-way setup with rocker switches to our AccuAir eLevel 4-way system and he cant believe how much better the truck handles and rides. This is the TouchPad he uses to control everything. This gives him manual control and three saved heights plus an all-down button
Yep...That looks sweet. Seems like I priced it at around a grand?? It'll have to wait until after we get some A/C installed.
Aceuh, if you already have air and just need a control system, then its $795-1095. We have complete Air Management Packages for guys who need everything and those start at $1695. If your still running the tripod-mounted heater, then I would say the A/C is a good priority
The tripod has been returned to it's original duties of holding cameras! We just got back from a trip to Chattanooga and we were borderline on sweating...So yep, A/C is the priority! She's wanting to add some widewhites to the car but I'm afraid that they'll last no time without some type of management system so we can get the alignment dialed in. I am seriously interested in the management system and would like to know what it would involve to get us converted over. Thanks!
Let me know what you have for valves currently, and I will tell you what we would set you up with for a simple conversion. Alignment is something good to be aware of and is one of the big reasons people run our system... 1/8" or better accuracy really keeps your tires happy!
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