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Technical advice on bad machine work

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by buick bill, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    i am looking for your opinion on what i should do about the experience i have had with a local machine shop . i recently took a 848 casting 235 head to the nearest machine shop to see if it was crack free and to get a valve gob/surface done . 3 wks later i recvd. my report that it was crack free but needed basicley everything . i told him that the car would see very little use as it was just for local shows , short drives , etc.. so ,try to keep the cost down if possible . so a month later the head was DONE . $350 .oo for the parts/labor . i replaced the orig. head . which had not had a problem . but was not the 848 casting . installed the head ..and the car seemed to run fine . after approx. 500 + - mi. i noticed a miss at low rpm s . after some investigation i found low/no compression on #3 . i removed the head and found the intake not sealing . at that point i returned the head to the shop , without any disassimbley .after valve removal we saw that the guide was VERY loose . they said they dint know why it would be so sloppy . i said it wasnt anything i had done . bla bla . so i said what now . without admitting any responsability they said they would repair if i pd. for additional parts. 2 wks and $100 later and its done , again . so after 2nd instal the mtr. seems to be running grt. . i drive aprox. 30/40 mi..remove the valve cover to re-adj. the valves . the mtr. is idling .temp about 170 andbam . the intake valve #3 sticks open .wipes out the pushrod . contacts the piston , etc. . head removed again . i remove the valve this time myself . i can plainly see the failure was from the seat not being recut after the new guide was installed .causing the valve to seize in the guide . so i now would not trust this shop to check the water level . should i ask for a refund . that im sure they wont give . sue in small claims court . say thnx grt job . or chalk it up to experiance and move on . am i to blame ? right now im in to this for close to $500.oo + 3 gskt sets at $30 each 6 hrs. labor 5 hrs. driving to /from shop 60 mi away . and i dont know if the mtr. is even going to run again . did i mention there was nothing wrong with the orig. head ? i just thought i would upgrade to the 848 and never have to worry about it !! so with hindsite being what it is . what should i do ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  2. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
    Member

    Move on, nothing good will come from arguing with them. They gave you a cheap job.
     
  3. Raise Cane! or Cain, or whatever it's called. That was basic engine machine work, that they couldn't do properly.
    Get your money back for the labor charges, at least.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  4. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 772

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Bite the bullet and take the hit. Court will just add more $ to the pain. Just let everyone you know to shop elsewhere.
     

  5. Don't go shooting anyone or anything like that.
     
    Boneyard51 and 57JoeFoMoPar like this.
  6. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    im sure i should retract that statement . even though it shows my true feeling . but as is usual i am asking a question i already know the answer too ! real life is nothn i can do will change the facts and if i think different it just shows more of MY stupidity .i guess my anger can have no positive effect on the obvious . live and learn !
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  7. I'd consider going there and calmly talking to whoever is in charge or owns the place and seeing what they say and do with you being upfront. Have 'your case' and '~demands' prepared, which means that you'd be trying to get money back, since you don't want them working on your stuff anymore. I imagine they're going to want to 'fix it' again instead of refunding money, though. You should also have your 'exit plan' prepared, meaning walk away if it doesn't go your way, at this point.
     
  8. Yeah, I didn't think you were serious about that.

    I don't see any reason for you to blame yourself.

    You're pissed off, now, but in the long run it's probably not going to be a big deal.

    Just curious: This is a 235 Chevy? This is in your profile picture car? You still have the original head, right?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  9. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    yes its in my 41 . and yes i still have the head i replaced . thats the part that is really disturbing . my first thought was to put it back on and let it go . but i thought i should bring it to their attention . knowing they would not accept any responsability . so ,from then on it was on me !!!... the worst part is there is no local known machine shopps here anymore . everyone has got old and health has closed them down . same stoty .no young hotshots tryinyg to take their place . the shop i used in medford or is ran by 2 guys that i guess should retire . last year !!! the old george jones song whos gonna fill them shoes comes to mind !!
     
  10. 600 bucks is cheap for an education. You learned about a bad machine shop. Pass your learning experience on. I don't see where you're out the time though. Working on cars is what this hobby is all about. Trying to go after a machine shop that does shitty work is a fruitless endeavor. They know they do shitty work, so they have become 'experts' at covering their ass or they wouldn't still be in business. You'll just waste more time and money trying to get blood from a stone. At the next place you take it to, explain the reason why you're there and tell them to make out duplicate bills for the work preformed and have them send one copy to the offending machine shop. Then just sit back and see what happens.
     
  11. stuart in mn
    Joined: Nov 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,406

    stuart in mn
    Member

    If you're in Eureka, Google shows a couple auto machine shops right in town.
     
  12. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,349

    -Brent-
    Member

    I've learned not to ask people for cheap work. It has bitten me EVERY TIME.
     
  13. v8flat44
    Joined: Nov 13, 2017
    Posts: 1,211

    v8flat44

    Move on is probably the best. I would however contact a local B B B & tell of your experience. Maybe you should reinstal the original head for now just to be able to drive it. A better shop could "make right" the 848 head later on. Hang in there, you'll "git-er-done".
     
  14. I really like that car.
     

  15. He's in Y reka, not UE reka. It's one of those confusing "who the hell would name two towns so similarly?" deals. Yreka is a lot smaller town.
     
  16. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    i do know more about r&r of a 235 than i ever dreamed of . i think im ready to open a shop ? im in yreka ca . often mistaken for eureka but mi. appart . thx for the advice . now the question is why didnt i sink the anchor in the lake from the onset and replace with one of the many sbc ,sbb,bbb s that i have already in my possession . i guess the answer to that is obvious as well !!! i was just going to keep it simple !! stupid!!
     
  17. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    if the head wasnt so damn heavy it wouldnt be so bad . anyone got a aluminum 235 head laying around .maybe with roller rockers as well . dream big !!
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  18. uncle buck
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,876

    uncle buck
    Member

    " i told him that the car would see very little use as it was just for local shows , short drives , etc.. so ,try to keep the cost down if possible "

    I have a hard time ignoring this part of your conversation with the shop. This thought never ends well for me.... I would have to share the blame if I said this as I know corners will be cut
     
    chevyfordman, SS327, dmar836 and 3 others like this.
  19. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 1,045

    KenC
    Member

    I'd talk to them, with low expectations of any good results. The problem is most likely a failure to ream the guide to the correct size after it was replaced . Seat issues wouldn't cause a sticky valve, leaky, but not sticky.
    I would ream the guide to the correct size, check the valve, and if bent replace it. Lap the valve to the seat and put it back on. Oh, and check all the others for correct stem/guide clearance.
     
  20. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    hinssight , right.!.... but....after cleaning , inspection ,magn. ,etc.. a prof. shop should have said this is what is req. to complete the job . not any other answer . !right ? what i was mainly speaking to and discussed was hard seats . which i to this point still dont see as needed . but , that being said . i am not , nor ever claimed to be anything other than a dumb ass . and surely not a machinest ......
     
  21. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 2,419

    jaracer
    Member

    You are better off letting them tell you what needs to be repaired and then you make the decision. I'd ask the owner/manager for some kind of refund and if he says no way, chalk it up to experience. Find another machine shop with a good reputation and tell them to fix it right. I've got a great one in Portland, OR that does an excellent job. He isn't fast, but his work is very, very good. If you can't find someone locally you might call Brian at Bearing Service in Portland.
     
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  22. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    like stated , im not a machinist . but i am fairly certain the second time thru the guide was replaced . as should have been done in the first place . then it seems the seat should be cut again to be certain it is square to the guide . before the new valve was installed .it is plain from the valve that it was never making correct / square contact with the seat .i should post a picture . its very obvious !
     
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  23. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,307

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Just in general, if a shop can't get something as basic as a stock valve job on a 235 "right", I wouldn't let them touch anything
     
    bobss396, belair, 48fordnut and 4 others like this.
  24. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 3,299

    oldiron 440
    Member

    This story sounds like every time I hire someone else to do work for me, roofing, electrical, carpenter, sheet rock etc..
    Ive had my best luck dealing with reputable contractors that are usually willing to fix problems but any more nobody seams to give a shit. They can't find help and have more work than qualified help. I'd talk first but depending on his addtued there's always small claims.
    In forty five years of business I never sued anyone but there is a few times I should have.
     
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  25. buick bill
    Joined: Dec 18, 2008
    Posts: 856

    buick bill
    Member
    from yreka;ca

    DSCF5607.JPG DSCF5608.JPG DSCF5611.JPG DSCF5610.JPG but how do you know ? heres some pix . anyone able to see what im seeing ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  26. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Too late for you, but any time I have a valve job done I take the head and valves only! When I get it back I clean it , throughly , and check every thing! Then I lap in the valves. If I an satisfied with the pattern, I assemble the heads myself. I also inform the shop of what I am going to do. I started doing this after finding shaving and crap in a six cylinder head I had done, years ago after checking the valve job with the old gasoline test! Just my way!








    Bones
     
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  27. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 1,161

    COCONUTS

    If the head is not worth anything to you, take it back to the shop, have a new 3 degree valve job, all new guilds, harden seats, and mill the head. Don't go back to pick it up when they call you to say the work has been completed. When they call the second time, asking for you to pay them and take the head with you, tell them you already pick up the head and it works just fine. For the rest of you guys, DON'T TAKE ANY 6 CYLINDERS HEADS to that machine shop or else you will be getting old Buick Bills old head back.
     
  28. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 2,659

    RmK57
    Member

    What is the gasoline test? I'm in the process of assembling my Edelbrock's as we speak.
     
    Boneyard51 likes this.
  29. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,440

    Boneyard51
    Member

    It is a test my Dad showed me years ago. A good valve job should hold gasoline! Turn your head so that the valve seat is lower that the port and pour gasoline in the port and observe the valve…. no fuel should run out . Slight discoloration is ok. Do this for intake and exhaust. There are some valves that cannot be tested this way, due to design. Also be careful using gasoline, my Dad showed me this test when I was a young man. Today you should use solvent or some other non- flammable liquid.








    Bones
     
  30. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,325

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    I like working on cars too, but he's out a lot of time because he's had to pull the heads off what, twice now because they have their head up their ass? That ain't what this hobby is about.
     

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