Yesterday a friend and I painted my frame and some parts with Jet Black acrylic enamel. We did use a hardener. During the process a lot of runs and sags developed. From what I read on here this can be wet sanded and buffed... but there are a lot of runs in spots where it may be hard to get a buffer, on compound curves or tight areas. How long should I wait to start fixing? Can I get good results hand buffing? What grit and buffing products? I put a lot of time and effort into preping these items and I was very disappointed and frustrated in the way things turned out. BTW I have searched the forum and found some conflicting information. Some say wait 72 hrs, some say wait a month before trying to fix anything. Please any info greatly appreciated. Thanks. Here are a couple of pics.
You don't mention a brand name. Some have different cure times than others. I would be checking the paint manufacturer for accurate information. It sounds like it would be easier to sand smooth and re-coat the entire piece, rather than trying to buff in hard to get at places. Stu
I agre with Stu. Sand down the runs and paint it again. Use a razor blade on the runs first. Drag a new razor blade over the run holding the blade at 90 degrees to the surface. It will slowly remove the high spots. I am good at removing runs. Neal
It's not impossible, but you probably won't be happy with the results. Enamel is not really designed to be buffed. It would be easier to sand it down to primer and start over.
Oh man I hate it when that happens ! If it were one or two runs I'd try to fix it. That much you're going to be much happier in the end sanding it down flat and reshoot it. Sanding your new paint isn't going to make you happy but that's the way to be happier in the end. Next go around, if you spot a run, put the gun down and dab some of the paint off with a little bit of tape, The tape marks will blend right in in a few minutes and no run. Enamel can be sanded and buffed to an absolutely beautiful perfect finish.
The paint is Restoration Shop Acrylic Enamel Jet Black. I will try to look up the spec sheet. I am really torn on what to do. I have the patience to sand and buff but there are quite a bit of runs not only on the frame but my nice new tank. My buddy shot this... I dont know if I could do any better. I would take my time though.
I knew a guy that would scuff and buff acrylic enamel and it would come out looking like glass. I think he waited 48 hrs and I think it was Dupont, but this was in 1980 too.
I think the paint will dry in that time... But the Runs wont... they will be soft for quite some time.. any thing you apply over the sanded run area will show the Runs..
Enamel can be color sanded and buffed, no problem at all. We used to color sand and buff all of our old DuPont Centauri jobs back in the day, and they would come out incredible. If you decide to do it over again, make sure that you go easy on the first coat. It sounds like he may have laid on the first coat too heavy (wet) and may not have let it bite before he laid down the second coat. Also, make sure you get the booth temperature up a bit and use the correct reducer to accelerate/retard the drying time. I've never used Restoration Shop products. I know that they are cheap, and that might be a part of the problem as well.
Too much paint too fast, or wrong temp range reducer, million other things but that's the most common. There's a very fine line with enamel for a nice job- its right between orange peely and runny. Orange peely is a bit easier to correct. Sand it with 220 EASILY on the big runs, flatten with some 400 and give it another try. Experiment and see what you can get away with fixing so you'll know on the next coat what you can do and can't do.
Thanks for the info guys!!! In your guys opinion should I even attempt to wet sand and buff or should I just save the effort and reshoot over existing... after sanding runs out of course?
sand and repaint it will be faster and you only have to do the parts that show. outside of the frame and engine compartment etc. one way to look at it if it ran you have enough paint on it
that's the stuff from kragen right?. I would re-shoot it, this time LITE multiple coats, wait about 15 min (shorter if it's a hotter day) in between coats and the last coat try to get it glossy and smooth. You can wet sand/buff after it has COMPLETELY hardened (about 3 weeks to a month depending on how many coats). I used PPG delstar in the 90's (still have 1 qt of gloss black) and it was moody for me since I'm not a pro painter. But can run EASY if applied to thick, it's not as durable or doesn't flow out as good as urethane.......plus I'm not sure of the quality of the restoration shop paint your using.
Yes, and just consider the first coats of black to be extra primer. Paint (acrylic enamel with hardner) makes a great primer. Check my "signature". overspray
Cure time depends on temp and humidity. If temp stays above the paints curing temp it will be ready to sand and work with based on the manufacturers suggested full cure time. Could be 2 to 4 days if hardner is used. If the temp is dropping down below cure temps, say at night, you would need to adjust days accordingly. If your only get 1/2 days above cure temp it could take 4-8 days depending on manufacturer. The cure times are on manufacturers specifications webpages. Curing is not only important for sanding and buffing. If you decide to reshoot this and you do not let what is on their completely cure. When you repaint it the first paint will lift. Then you hve a real mess and much more wasted paint. I would just let it cure good and then sand it smooth and shoot it. Slower this time allowing each coat a flash time. Key is patience and do not rush it.
it buffs fine when fully cured.... this is a FRAME. sanding it down to primer would take three lifetimes. first, it looks like you have some orange peel too which indicates to me that you mixed your paint too thick. this will increase drying time for sanding. haul it out in the sun to bake for a few days, let it dry, shoot some pool and fergetaboutit for a while. if the drips still bug you, drink a six pack. if they STILL bother you, ask yourself if anyone will notice after the body is on. if the answer is 'yes', climb a mountain and ask the wise dude, "how short is life?". just sand the visible areas and repaint. pay attention to the paint thinning process. better a tad thin than too thick. if the paint job on the frame bugs you this much, practice a little before shooting the body.
I am with the "sand the runs and rough up the rest and repaint it" crowd. If you scrape the runs with the razor first, a good idea, and you find they are soft, get one of those 500 watt halogen lights and aim it right at the runs and about a foot away until the frame starts to warm up. This will help cure them faster.
I like Dupont Centari with a hardener. You can talk to their help desk. I heard Dupont will send a local area rep to your shop to help with ideas. Good luck
Plain Centari is getting hard to find due to VOC laws but the local stores still carry pitch black in facpac. We usually keep a gallon on hand for various projects. If I think about it for a second, I can smell that stuff!
Sanded and buffed solid color Centari jobs a LOT, back in the day. But it IS easier to sand it with rougher paper, and reshoot it.
Eastwood Products sells nib files. They are a 1" square file bonded to a wooden handle. They have a curved tooth pattern rather than cross hatched teeth. They sell one that has a high crown and they come in three "grits". Once the run has hardened they are easily controlled to just shave the run without disturbing the surrounding area. The small size allows you to get in some pretty tight places. I think the set of 3 is about $45 but can save that much in time, effort and materials. And yes, too much paint too fast is probably the culprit.
Well... I am not too confident my painting abilities would be better than the original. I picked up some 800 wet/dry and started on the tank. I seemed to have gotten a lot of the orange peel out and some of the visible drips. Is there a method to buff by hand or is this impossible to get back to shine by hand. I am very hesitant to use a buffer because of all the edges and curves on the tank. If I cant hand buff I may have to re shoot.
When sanding runs, you need to block sand it just like fill primer to get rid of the run lines. If you sand the runs with a soft pad, the run will show though the re-painting or buffing. That is why I suggested using the razor blade. Neal
Lots of elbow grease , lots and lots of elbow grease & not 800 finish. 1500 or 2000 better. low speed buffer shouldn't be a problem after a few days @ proper temp.
i would have washed that mess off with thinner wile it was wet . dont matter if ya sand the runs out if you dont reprime it and paint over the old enamel you will see all the runs thru the new top coat
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