Much appreciated, brother. I’m in the breakdown and organize phase to see what I have and what I need to get a complete set. Then clean, refurbish and rebuild. Lots to learn, but I’m finding it surprisingly enjoyable.
Going through brake parts in my very limited spare time at work, getting ready to rewire things on my next day off, I have a pair of Delco-Lovejoy shocks that should work for the fronts if I can manage to rebuild them, still searching for a body.... What about the banger??? What should we do? I have my thoughts, what say the brothers? Remember, gang... achievable!
The most period correct head would be the Simmons Super Power Head. 5.5:1, and says "Licensed by Chrysler Motors"
It's more-so subjective. I think the simmons head with matching intake is just wicked cool. Was anything winfield related made in the late 30s? I know the Super Winfield was cast sometime in the 40s. I know RayDay (Seattle based) was another good company in the 20s and 30s, but those parts are hard to find. I've only seen RayDay pistons, and a RayDay head.
This head was produced in the early 1930s in a 5.5:1 compression ratio according to Simmons catalog information. The head was not made by Chrysler, but the Ricardo combustion chamber design was used by Simmons under license from Chrysler. The spark plugs were moved towards the exhaust valves increasing performance. I owned one, but had to sell it to afford moving out of my parents house!
Well that’s interesting history. I’m guessing that they might be kinda scarce today (read “spendy” and hard to find) and not fit into the “achievable” goal of this build. But I do love the history.
Winfield stuff is all earlier than the late 30's. Carbs and heads were available when the cars were still new. The yellow and red heads were available in late 1930. I'll have to double check my notes for an exact date. The S carbs were available before the heads and the SR carb was an "improved" design available in the mid 30's. The Super Winfield is a Bell Auto Parts reproduction. I believe those are post war. But they are based off earlier designs. My Super Winfield is essentially a "red" head. My Riley 4 port's birthday was August 21st of 1933. This stuff is a lot earlier than most people think. The cars were brand new. I do think the Simmons is cool. No argument there! I just thought maybe you had some info on it that I didn't.
I found an old Ford police head. Pepped my motor up noticeably. Of course, I did a much needed ring job and slapped in a Brierley C grind cam at the same time, so who knows how much the head contributed? It was pretty cheap, though.
You should invest in Brieley's book on bangers. A 6-1 head, B cam, downdraft carb, lightened flywheel and a centrifical advance dist. will wake that banger up. BUT anything you do to improve will also destroy your engine if it's old and in need of a complete rebuild. This engine was a new rebuild with the above mentioned mods. It would do 65 but I preferred 55 and back roads.
^^^ That's the formula. Simple and effective. And it's achievable; you don't have to break the bank to do it. A Winfield yellow head is cool, but a new Snyder's 6:1 head will do the job for a fraction of the money. A Mallory dual point is cool, but a Model B dist will do the job for a fraction of the money. A Winfield downdraft carb is cool, but a Stromberg will do the job for a fraction of the money.
Thanks, man. I have a lead on a Police head that I'm considering. Cams are likely going to wait until V2.0 when I go into the motor. V1.0 will be strictly bolt-ons. Man... I DO need that book. Thanks, friend. I'm not ready to go inside for cam and flywheel quite yet. I do have the B distributor from Larry ready to go. I will pull the side cover and drop the pan to have a look, but a rebuild isn't in the cards just now. That's more or less my formula. I'd like a yellow Winfield, but will likely go with the Snyder's. I have a little plan for that actually. B dist. already sitting on the bench, and Winduptoy gave us the great writeup on timing it on an A engine. Carb/intake... I thought I was set on Stromberg with a nifty prewar fuel pump... BUT!... I've been thinking a LOT about duel updrafts. Like... eventually dual Winfield updrafts. Eventually. Zeniths or Tillys until then, but eventually dual updraft Winfields. Eventually. Maybe.
Talk to @Hitchhiker about that. He just installed a period dual-updraft setup on a customer car. Looks cool as hell. I'm waiting for a report on performance. I run single Stromberg 97 with a 6:1 yellow head, and it works great. I've had a dual carb setup (twin 81s) sitting on the shelf for some time. I keep waffling between cool vs. drivability, and drivability keeps winning, so the 97 stays. If you get the Brierley book, I think you'll find he's a fan of Stromberg 97s with the 6:1 setup.
Oh... I have been. I, too have been waiting on a performance report. Spencer’s jalopy is the "cool" car. There's another in the works who's primary function will be drivability. So... ya know. What's the title of the Brierley book?
In typical Hitchhiker fashion I am a day late and holding speed till the last possible second... It hasn't rained in 4 months and I picked the day after it started to get in my metal roof....anyways today I installed a new chimney for my 250,000 BTU waste oil heater. This sum bitch is gonna heat the place with the doors open!!! This is the heater equivalent of a big block in a small car. The 427 cobra of heaters. And should be much easier than heating with wood. Tomorrow I am gonna try and wire everything up. I'll text you both when I get up. @RyanAK @ClarkH...which will be late. It's 10:45. I just popped a pizza in. I'm exhausted.
Well I’m glad you didn’t fall off the roof and are telling Charlie to go for help! Get rested, friend!
A block. 6:1 head. B distributor. What's the potential real-world driving difference between a Stromberg 97 and dual updrafts? Zeniths or Tillostons... Winfields will be a future consideration.
Achievable… this jalopy probably would have been more achievable by starting with a chassis that had functional brakes. But! We are making progress. So since we’re starting with nothing, we had some choices to make. I’ve decided (Spence could care less about this detail…) to go for A rears with iron drums and ‘32 fronts. Likely Ted’s floaters. With the help of friends, I’ve managed to just about collect everything I need in early Ford parts… minus consumables. That means I’m spending a lot of time restoring parts rather than building with my credit card. Which is as it should be. I’m also becoming very familiar with the functioning of Ford mechanical brakes. Useful skills. Where do I find the time? It’s good to have an office with a door. When I’m not doing…
And then… …then there were two. Well… 1.5? Almost one? I don’t know. There’s a car in here somewhere…
So with parts and pieces coming together and progress slowly being made, the current formula looks like this: Shooting for 1935-1938ish... I really would like to find some examples of mid-west or eastern street cars from the period to take inspiration from. If ya have any, post 'em up! '28/'29 Phaeton on Model A chassis - Spencer is undecided on fenders or aprons but he wants to run a hood top. "So everyone can see the neat motor, Dad." Good, lad. Stock-ish interior. If anyone has 'worn' interior from a restoration... Should probably ask on Ford Barn... 4cyl banger with some speed parts - I have some neat, period-correct things inbound. Stay tuned. '28/'29 radiator. Stock A transmission and rear. 19" wires; 5.00 tires front and back. Tires... might be a budget buster. Ooof da. Model A rear brakes w/ iron drums - possibly floaters if I can find the cash before I put everything together. Rear lowered by pulling leaves from A spring. Gonna need some advice here... '32 Ford front axle and brakes. Front lowered with reverse eye main leaf, maybe a leaf or two pulled. As above, gonna need some advice here... Shocks... stock Ford if the set on the Phaeton chassis is ok. I have Delco Lovejoys that will work for fronts. That's the general plan. I'm just happy I was able to get a 4-door open car body in such fine shape so Spence can take Momma and Nora along for a ride. I think this car wants to be Brown. Or Blue... Maybe... Drab or Gray. Cream? Black?
Opinions may vary, but I've found the single Stromberg 81 on my roadster to be extremely driveable. The single Zenith wasn't horrible, but it had its limitations. I always used to stall on the same hill(s) with the Zenith, although I think sediment in the tank was more of a problem than the carb itself. Mine (above). As food for thought, here is Charlie Hascall's "100mph 'banger" in the Dirty Bird. I've driven it, and it lives up to its name. Counterbalanced crank, Winfield head, Winfield intake, Mallory distributor, single Stromberg, split stock exhaust manifolds, and something he refers to as "Stadium Exhaust," which I assume are straight pipes. It has an overdrive, and he's driven it from Portland to LA for Morty's reliability runs. Legendary stuff.
Good looking mill, Joey. I always enjoy seeing your roadster and certainly value your input. What’s not to like about a traditional banger that’s extremely drivable and obviously super fun? I don’t know what rock I’ve been living under, but it seems I should know about the Dirty Bird. More research needed… that looks like a fun ride. My initial plan was absolutely to go single downdraft… for all the ‘regular’ reasons. But staying as period correct as possible to the mid-‘30s eventually became a more important build goal, and I can’t find a satisfactory way to reliably feed a downdraft fuel in ruggedly hilly central Pennsylvania. A modern electric pump and pressure regulator hidden in the frame just isn’t for me on this car. Maybe an original Autopulse, or another period solution I haven’t discovered just yet will come along. But until then… Something special is coming from Hitchhiker. Matt has been a great supporter of this build from before it even was a build. Glad to have a speed part from him to add to the Jalopy. Stay tuned.
It’s in the post, so hopefully I’m not jinxing myself by posting a photo… this and a couple of Tillotsons to start.
Stromberg and Winfields are both early thirty's carbs. I ran my downdraft Winfield on gravity for seven years in hilly Pa country.
I must have a half dozen photos of your Winfield engine in my folder, Ken. Not saying I won't eventually get there. I guess for whatever reason I just wanted to try a pair of updrafts initially. Interesting data point that you ran without issues on gravity alone here at home.
I can tell you from experience, the cast rear A drums and the 32 brakes up front are a huge improvement over stock. Just takes a bit to get it all adjusted out right, but once you do, its very impressive, I can skid the tires just as easy as juice brakes. I think your on the good path, and if you want a cheaper easier to tune carb, the holley 94 is dime a dozen, uses modern holley jets, the only thing you will need to find is the power valve since its different. My 94 has been great. Single downdraft, I also toy with the idea of dual downdraft for cool looks, but performance and drivability is key for me. Also, I am gravity feed, I have found that you will need 3/8" hardline to get enough flow for about 100 hp. But I'm doing it and haven't had a lick of issues on starvation after the upgrade. You can kinda tell the difference from the silver 1/4" to the 3/8" copper. Kid had a good eye wanting a hood top only, thats how the cool kids do it. Digging the project man, keep it up.....
For what it's worth, the Winfield S was released in 1930, and the SR in 1932, so they're both fair game for your plan, timewise.
The Jalopy Journal
