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A stupid question about carb spacers

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by grimmfalcon138, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. grimmfalcon138
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 164

    grimmfalcon138
    Member
    from az

    Would budget racers in the mid-late 60's use a tall carb spacer to to get a similar affect to a tunnel ram? If so, how tall? pics would be great! thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,584

    73RR
    Member

    Tall spacers (how high is 'up'?) can cause problems on the wrong manifold by making to much velocity. Which manifold and how tall? Trial and error on your combo. Then the question of 4-hole vs open design, and of course both increase plenum volume which will affect the carb signal.
    Just because the catalogue says they make hp does not mean they will...:cool:

    I don't remember too many 'budget' racers using TR or IR intakes in the 60's.
    .
     
  3. You could see lots of stuff done at the track in the '60s. There was a fella that rced at the track that I went to a lot in the later '60s that mad his own out of wood and marine paint. He tried all different combinations from 1/8 to a couple of inches, open and 4 port. Lots of fellas bought spacers from him.

    I couldn't see that they helped much. But a spacer can be used to fine tune one. I wouldn't do it for looks performance outweighs looks every time.

    When it come to going fast form always follows function.
     
  4. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,584

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    I can see where they helped out "alittle" on a high-rise intake... Not so much on a low-rise manifold..
     

  5. 70dodgeman
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 205

    70dodgeman
    Member
    from Alpha NJ

    If your engine's intake manifold is to restrictive or a poor design a carb spacer can help. If your engine is making a lot of power and your running a duel plane intake a small open spacer can make it breath easier. If you run a single plane and the carb is jetted rich but the plugs look lean a four hloe spacer can help improve the vacuum signal to the main venturi's.
     
  6. 70dodgeman
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 205

    70dodgeman
    Member
    from Alpha NJ

    They usually just cause problems on street engines. Most people run to big of a carb or a single plane intake on a street motor. Most of the time they are used to fine tune all out race engines
     
  7. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    Every engine set-up and manifold reacts differently to carb spacers. And to complicate things further, spacer type/design and height can make a lot of difference. There are genertal rules, but there are lots of exceptions to those guidelines. Even professional race engine builders often can't tell you for sure what effect a spacer might have on a given engine. They dyno test with different spacers on a case by case basis and use what works best for that combination..
     
  8. grimmfalcon138
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 164

    grimmfalcon138
    Member
    from az

    Thanks for the advice guys, i think the carb spacer idea was my inner 16 year old wanting to see something sticking out of the hood. Snap back to the real world and im 32, and i know better. porknbeaner said it best, "When it comes to going fast form always follows function."
     
  9. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    [​IMG]

    That is what I always thought until I read this catalog. Granted it was an earlier time and engine but they removed the risers for racing. I think my thinking was based on the tunnel ram intakes from the 70s.
     
  10. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,856

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    My understanding is that risers promote low end torque by increasing manifold velocity at lower rpms. This is backed by the advertisement above which says "commercial model" versus removing them for racing.

    If you're running short roundy-rounds, or stoplight racing, more torque for launching would be a plus.
     
  11. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,655

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The guy with the wooden spacers was also looking for a 'heat sink'. Very effective at low altitude and hot weather.
     

  12. That just sounds way too familiar. My inner 16 year old is always trying to get me to buy some crap I don't need. Sometimes he wins.
     
  13. grimmfalcon138
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 164

    grimmfalcon138
    Member
    from az

    Yeah, i get the 16 year old winning thing. He got me into this mess to begin with. the clutch went out on my daily driver, so long story short 3 weeks ago it had a 6cyl 3spd now it has a 318/727. YOU WON THIS ROUND 16 YEAR OLD!
     

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  14. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,584

    73RR
    Member


    The usual, unintended, consequence is that velocities can be too high so that fuel can't make the first corner. The result is too much turbelance (loss of VE) and liquid fuel puddling on the plenum floor.

    .
     
  15. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,816

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Don't feel bad, I know a guy who cut a hole in a cherry '69 Camaro hood so he could put a chrome velocity stack on the stock Q-jet and let it stick out of the hood- he was 18 at the time

    Spacers are (properly) used for tuning, some intakes & combos like them, some don't, some 1/2", some 1"... My 427 2x4 MR intake on the Galaxie just luvs 2" open spacers with the present combo, and many others have used the same setup with success- but if you change the cam, heads, whatever, it may like something a little different
     
  16. I use a carb spacer to reduce heat like the gent from Atwater mentioned. It works really well in the summer, but my 4150 carb ices up in the winter without a heat source to the inlet side.
     
  17. Ever see the hotrod magazine article with the drag car that had a tunnel ram intake made out of straight lengths of radiator hoses? Weird-ass contraption, but it worked.
     
  18. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,816

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Yep, saw that- just change the lengths of the hoses to tune it LOL
     
  19. 61falcon
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 772

    61falcon
    Member

    carb spacers are designed to increase plenum volume. you need an engine combo that can benefit from this, otherwise you hurt performance. they are to be used on single plane intakes and generaly dont create enough power to feel the diference.
     
  20. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    open spacers will generally lessen booster signal/velocity, four hole spacers do the opposite. either one can be good or bad, depending on the combination. Open spacers generally benefit combinations that could stand a bigger carb. They can be run on dual plane or single plane intakes.
     
  21. badlefihand
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 318

    badlefihand
    Member

    I do not know all of the tech but in years (and years) past we used carb spacers to keep the fuel cooler and risers to get a bit more boast and smoother air flow.I should mention that Pontiac engines are what I used mostly and exhaust cross over was a problem. Spacers were just about mandatory on those engines.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  22. gasserjohn
    Joined: Nov 9, 2008
    Posts: 1,219

    gasserjohn
    Member

    tunnel ram spacers&phelonic spacers made by dashman hamb member
     

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  23. Rudebaker
    Joined: Sep 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,598

    Rudebaker
    Member
    from Illinois

    I remember you could buy 4" spacers once upon a time. I remember a guy running those under a pair of AFB's on an Edekbrock C26. It was all for show. A friend stacked two 2" spacers under a 780 Holley just so his "fle eye" air cleaner would stick through the hood of his '67 Impala SS 396. He was 17 not 16 though.
     
  24. dashman
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 774

    dashman
    Member
    from Viroqua WI

    For all you naysayers, please don't respond after this post.

    1) If your engine barely runs then all the riser in the world won't make it better. (cam, carb, gear, compression) :confused:

    2) We have had guys dyno tune their engines for the correct height of our risers. That probably eliminates most of our street cars.:rolleyes:

    3) Guys are reporting their engines are running 30-40 degrees cooler running our phenolic on their street cars.:D

    4) Most guys and gals notice more throttle response on their street cars running taller (2" - 4") risers on their 2x2's all the way to 8x2's.:cool:

    Now this is feedback from my customers so don't go and burst into flames over this tidbit of information. Guys have been making these way before me and will be long after I'm gone and this debate will go on as well. You can't argue the numbers, but I'm sure some of you will, let me know what you need.

    Dashman's Hot Rod & Speed Parts www.dashman.net

    Some pics from the Hamb to chew on.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  25. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    :mad:
    Ah yes! the old icing up problem gets me too in the cooler months but I run a little extra choke to over come it
     

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  26. grimmfalcon138
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 164

    grimmfalcon138
    Member
    from az

    Dashman, you build some beautiful stuff. skills like yours make me wish i had paid more attention in auto shop class!
     
  27. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,584

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    It also helps to know about cnc machining and writing programs.. Cad designs and all that good stuff! :)
     
  28. dashman
    Joined: Apr 15, 2009
    Posts: 774

    dashman
    Member
    from Viroqua WI

    Sometimes it's not about performance. :mad:

    We do a lot for guys and girls that have a Stromberg 97 spacing intake manifolds which can be at it's tightest spacing about 4.5" on center and is too tight if you want to run Ford / Holley 94 carburetors. What do we do? :confused: We stagger them! :cool:

    I couldn't find any pics of our 3 bolt carbs on 6x2's that we have done but this pic will give you the idea. :D

    Dashman's Hot Rod & Speed Parts www.dashman.net
     

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  29. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    Back 40 years or so ago a friend of mine made one from exhaust tubing and plate for his 312 roundy round car. It was over a foot tall. He claimed it made a huge difference but he never won a race with it so you decide.
     
  30. Riz04
    Joined: Apr 17, 2011
    Posts: 4

    Riz04
    Member

    I have been tinkering (read as cussing) trying to make a 3x2 rig work on a 292 y block (with 312 heads) fuel keeps percolating out of the 94s. I just ordered some of the phenolic spacers from Dashman, I figured I would try this before adding a restriction/blocking the heat riser. Carbs run fine when started, but leak down after shut off. It will start right back up w/in 5 min of shut down but any longer and all floods. Not looking for horses, just trying to not wash down the cylinders with fuel every time I start.
     

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