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Projects A Speedster Comes Out of the Weeds—Build Thread

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by ClarkH, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. Homemade44
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 517

    Homemade44
    Member

    When you heated the stud did you get it red hot and did you heat the cast iron iron around it? If you did and let it cool very slowly by covering it should have taken the temper out of the stud and allowed you to drill it. If it cooled fast all it did was make it harder.

    I would try heating again to red hot and warming the cast iron around the stud to expand slightly. This will tend to break the bond between the threads and the casting. Cover it and allow it to cool very slowly and let it cool down to room temperature before you do any drilling. Use a center punch in the center of the stud and see it you can mark the the stud. If you can it is soft enough to drill but make sure the drill is shark and is removing material. If you allow the drill to rub without cutting it will harden the stud again.

    Many times when you can't get a fastener to unserew, try tighten it first just a little and then try removing it again. This works many times for me.
     
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  2. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for this! I used a welding tip instead of a rosebud, so only the stud got red hot. And it cooled fast. I'll try what you suggest, maybe use the rosebud to spread the heat out.
     
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  3. Below the surface or not I second the "weld a nut on" comment. It has worked many times for me in the past!

    Love this little buggy!
     
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  4. stealthcruiser
    Joined: Dec 24, 2002
    Posts: 3,719

    stealthcruiser
    Member

    That "super cool extension" looks like a handle, from a bench mount can opener, from a restaurant !
     
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  5. Homemade44
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 517

    Homemade44
    Member

    I have welded nut on bolts and studs above and below the surface to remove broken fasteners and it works fine as long as the broken fastener is not so hard that it can't be marked with a center punch. When you weld to a hardened surface with a carbon content above 40 points you have to preheat and post heat or when force is applied to the unit it will crack in the weld.

    In this case the stud is hardened, probably from being heated red hot and allowed to cool fast. If you weld to it now without taking the temper out of the stud it will crack at the weld when force is applied. Once the temper is removed then it could be welded on it.

    The cast iron surrounding the stud will draw the heat out of the stud very fast causing it to harden again. By heating the stud and the surrounding cast iron the heat will be released slowly and should remove the temper in the stud. You want the surrounding cast iron to warm/hot so it doesn't act as a heat sink. You can control the cooling process by applying heat and drawing it away slowly by pulling the torch away for the surface a little at a time or by covering the heated surface with something that will hold the heat in and keeping the air from cooling it too fast.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  6. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This helps, Joe. I was thinking about the heat sink factor last night, and appreciate this suggestion about using the torch intermittently to slow the cooling. Going to try it later today, surrounded by fire extinguishers.

    Kinda, but take a close look. The bracket (front) is designed to wrap around the top of the brake lever. When you press down on the knob (rear), it pivots on the bracket (missing bolt in pic) which pushes the button on the top of the brake lever, releasing the ratchet so you can push the lever forward or pull it back. I'm guessing it came out of the 1930s equivalent of the J.C. Whitney catalog. The knob is Bakelite.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018

  7. Clark:
    I used those in the 50s on my A model. I need to locate one now for my 34 roadster.
    Keep at it son you are doing a great job on your car.
    I'm in the process of putting a 59 A B 24 stud in my roadster. The 21 stud just got tired & needed a rest.
    Best of luck getting your broken stud removed. I have head of guys burning them out. Never had that problem myself.
     
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  8. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
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    Thanks Bob. I've seen pictures of your '34. She's a beauty. Deserves a 24 stud.
     
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  9. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hanging out in the garage now while everything cools. Made some heat shields out of scrap stainless, then shoved my welding jacket over the area to insulate while it cooled. From the smell of it, I should have some nice branding as a momento. :D
    IMG_0951.jpg
     
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  10. I thought you bought a 2 Port. When did the Winfield come in to play?
     
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  11. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
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    The Riley 2 port is going on a B engine that's going to be in the works for a while. Already had the Winfield, figured I might as well run it in the meantime. Maybe shoulda left well-enough alone?
     
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  12. No, your doing the right thing. No complaints about the one I am running.
     
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  13. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 13,023

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    [​IMG]

    No news is good news...I'ma Hope'in



     
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  14. Homemade44
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 517

    Homemade44
    Member

    Are their any updates?
     
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  15. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well, it's discouraging. Not sure I accomplished anything with reheating and slow cooling. Cobalt bit still not biting. I'm going to borrow some good bits from my brother's shop, in hopes my cheap Home Depot bits are the prolem. Also want to talk with the neighbor about TIG welding. I took a break and got started on installing a new exhaust system. Nice soft metal for a change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  16. wow - great car / great work - love it
     
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  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 13,023

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @ClarkH there are others but when I needed special drills I went to a place by the name of KBC. You can buy bits of whatever qty. you want and they carry what the pros use so to speak. When it comes to what type of drill perhaps someone there can guide you. You may need something other than cobalt.

    They have alot of other cool stuff to and they have branches in the States & they are on line as .com not .ca which is our branch.

    Did this bolt bottom out by chance?

    Still crossing my fingers for you.
     
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  18. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
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  19. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 13,023

    Stogy
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    What type of drill got it in the end? That is also a special removal bit let us know what that is as well...good stuff Clark...
     
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  20. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
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    Huge shout-out to my brother Ric (greatest brother ever), who showed up this evening after work with drill bits and carbide burrs. He quickly reconfirmed that the bits weren't goint to cut it (literally), and then went at it with the carbide burrs. I was hoping it was just hardened at the top, but it was hard the whole way through. Took an hour and a half to get about half-way through the thing, pausing periodically to let my crappy estate-sale dremel cool off. Eventually the dremel broke, at which point we decided to go for broke: We tapped the extractor in with a hammer, said a prayer to god of Easy Out, and started working it. Apparently all that heat cycling was good for something, because it spun right out.
    Extractor1.jpg
    Extractor2.jpg
    Extractor3.jpg
    That first turn of the wrench was such a happy sight! Thanks agin, bro!

    I also want to thank Homemade44 here, who spent half an hour on the phone with me this morning, sharing his metalurgical insights and talking me off the ledge. He gave me faith this thing could be beaten. Thank you, Joe.

    That bit was one of 13 that came with the Irwin Hanson extractor kit ($100 on Amazon), sized 1/8" to 1/2". They call them "multi spline screw extractors." Beefier than a regular easy out, with a hex head you use a wrench on. See the back row.
    stud-extractor-kit.jpg
     
  21. Homemade44
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 517

    Homemade44
    Member

    Clark,
    Glad to see that you were successful in getting the stud out, knew that you could do it. I did enjoy our talk this morning. Keep up with the impressive work on the project.
     
  22. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 13,023

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Clark show us what your bro used with the dremmel tool to bore into that stud...;)

    In my repair side of my career my dremmel kit has gotten companies I've worked for out of deep water on more than one occasion. So again glad the build moves into forward again...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
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  23. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  24. Loose Ctrl
    Joined: Dec 21, 2014
    Posts: 43

    Loose Ctrl
    Member
    from Upstate,SC

    Happy day! My next suggestion was going to get quite involved. I'm happy for you that your bro's ideas worked out.
     
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  25. stealthcruiser
    Joined: Dec 24, 2002
    Posts: 3,719

    stealthcruiser
    Member



    Awesome!

    This is what I thought you were scavenging parts from:

    [​IMG]

    Rock On !
     
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  26. ClarkH
    Joined: Jul 21, 2010
    Posts: 736

    ClarkH
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Some progress, at any rate.
    winfield.jpg
    Discovered that one stud hole had been drilled out and re-tapped. So I’m not the first to have issues with studs seizing in this block.

    Also, killing time while waiting to borrow my brother’s torque wrench, I got started smoothing out the pitted hood panels.

    skimming-hood-panels.jpg
     
  27. coreythompsonhm
    Joined: Jul 16, 2012
    Posts: 49

    coreythompsonhm
    Member

    I HATE broken/siezed studs. I have removed my fair share of broken head studs from customer car overheats, etc. Glad to see you got it out.
     
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  28. Carbide drills will go through anything.
    I have used them to drill out broken taps.
     
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  29. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 13,841

    Squablow
    Member

    A proud moment when you got that stud out!
     
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  30. BIGSCOTT
    Joined: Jun 17, 2018
    Posts: 1

    BIGSCOTT

    Pretty sure you knew, and it has probably been covered in this thread
    but those bits in that extractor kit are left handed, they wont drill turning
    to the right.
     
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