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a simple request of simple teaching (welding and metal shaping)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oldskoolflyer13, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    I know things like this get posted here and there...some with mixed responses. Here it goes.. I'm looking for some hands on experience in welding and metal shaping as I don't know a lot in these two areas. I'm not looking to do this to make profits...for my use and my use only, and maybe one day when I'm experienced enough I can pass along the same. I'm not looking for a job...just knowledge. Im willing to help with what ever in trade for teachings, and willing to pay for materials and supplies used. I live in Fayetteville NC and am willing to travel within reasonable distance.

    My mechanical background: 10yrs experience in aircraft pneudraulics, I know shop safety, shop practices, some arc and oxycetaline welding experience in high school..but have forgotten most. I just got out of the military not to long ago as a SSG (E-6) after ten years of service.

    Im not trying to catch a lot of flak like a B-17 bomber over WWII Europe for posting this....just looking to learn. Im doing this for me and for my grandfather, whom was told that what I did with old cars was because of his influences...I assure that my intentions are good and not to take business away from someone.

    I would go to school for welding, but the only welding course around here sucks and I would have to wait till fall of 2011 to start on top of that.
     
  2. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,241

    indyjps
    Member

    You got the right approach. Being in NC you might approach some of the race shops in your area, Its not traditional but the fabricators there are some of the best.
     
  3. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    I think you could log in to metal meet, and make some new friends. There is a section for beginners, I'd start there.
     
  4. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,531

    aaggie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Check out the local Community College for welding programs. Most have pretty good classes and are reasonably priced.
     

  5. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    As much as I've heard people talking about it...the thought never crossed my mind. Seems like ive gotten kinda one tracked with the HAMB lately
     
  6. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    When I was a kid I read magazines and books and did whatever I could with what was available. If something in the neighborhood was being built, repaired or restore I was there watching and asking questions. In my teens I bought arc welder and a couple decent books and thought myself how to weld. Then I bought a gas welding set-up and taught myself how to how gas weld and braze. Then I got a job working in a shop that had a cheap TIG welder. I was the only one who could weld at all, so I gave myself some TIG lessons and was the shop's welder. With no one around to correct me I learned some bad habits and didn't learn some things too. Although I got good enough on my own to get paid for welding and fabricating, when I eventually started working around good welders and experienced fabricators I learned a lot more than I might have ever learned on my own. So, based on my experience you can teach yourself, but you will learn a lot more, and a lot faster, if you are exposed to and guided by people who know things you don't.
     
  7. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    I read up a lot on things...and try my best to repeat what i see. I know i can self teach myself, as I've made it through challenging schools in the army and can do what i set out to do. But finding someone around this area to share knowledge seems to be a bit scarce. Hot rodding in this town is limited....those that are semi traditional and kinda organized seem to be pretty much a click of special force's guys.....other than that....I'm surrounded by ricer's and "donk" cars in this town. Which is why I've asked on here.
     
  8. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    I'm even willing to drive 4-5 hours a handful of times a month to learn. I'm dedicated and will prove that. I have two projects to start (a lakes styled sport coupe, and a one man modified), and one day I will build a belly tanker...and who knows what else. Just need the tools of knowledge
     
  9. Jalopy Jim
    Joined: Aug 3, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    Jalopy Jim
    Member

    I'll second the Metalmeet, that has helped me more than any thing.
     
  10. Buff
    Joined: May 25, 2007
    Posts: 59

    Buff
    Member

    Try metalmeet.com that is where I learned with alot of practice and going to metalmeets. The hard part is if you learn something but don't own the tools you will lose the experience within a few months.

    I could show you some stuff, I have an english wheel, Planishing hammer, tig and mig welder, multiple hammers, slappers, and dollys and assorted metalshaping stuff.

    But my space is limited in my garage and I am still in 122 so you know I don't have alot of time off.

    Buff
    (you know me)
     
  11. I gotta think that being in NASCAR country, maybe you should not be looking for Hot Rodders but talented fabricators in the NASCAR racing world that can teach you the basics. The metal doesn't know what it is going on!
    There is also Fayetteville Tech http://www.faytechcc.edu/ that even has military aid
    Or how about a race car fabrication school like this? http://www.hedgecockracing.com/index_2.php
     
  12. oldgoaly
    Joined: Oct 22, 2004
    Posts: 562

    oldgoaly
    Member

    Buff can help you more than you think! Have some fun, make some parts! tt
     
  13. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    Slowly but surely Im getting the tools of the trade....planishing hammer next month...got a few hammers, a bead roller, other randomness....gotta go home and get my drill press, lathe, and other misc tools too.

    I hear ya on garage space...re-organizing mine, and setting up benches.

    Any help your willing to give would be appreciated....dont know if your number is the same..or if I have it for that matter:cool:
     
  14. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,365

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    If i could expand upon the topic (i'm in a similar situation), would you recommend comm college over private school or vise-versa? i noticed that the prices are about the same and similar curriculum.

    i'm not nessesarily talking about instructional quality etc., but more so which might be better as far as ease to gain certifications/paperwork etc? The private schools are state accredited.


    To oldskool---there's no other private schools around your area?
     
  15. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    Im sure there are private schools near by....but problem with that is whether they accept the G.I. Bill.....I was trying to hold onto that for a degree in mechanical engineering
     
  16. Get out in the garage a practice. Some really neat stuff has been bashed out with a leather bag, wood stump bowl, some hammers and what not. It certainly doesn't need to be high tech to learn how metal is going to move around.
    Sure some direction helps, but practice makes perfect. Go to some old junkyards, and see if you can buy some wreaked old fenders, whatever, and pound away on them.
    I took a Ron Covell class on weekend, it was amazing to watch him move metal around with what he could UPS to the shop for the class....
    Agree on the Metal Meet forum as well.
     
  17. 5,350 Posts? When do you have time to work in the garage? : )
     
  18. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,625

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    You don't need to spend a small fortune on tools to get started. You don't have to have a lot of tools to shape metal. I teach metalshaping and body restoration at Colchester Institute here in the UK where I teach methods of making panels and shaping metal that have been used for generations by old world craftsmen. I don't recommend that you take a welding course to learn how to weld panels either. That may sound controversial but welding plate for fabrication is a totally different skill.
    I have some you tube footage showing some of the methods I use and the results.

    David
     
  19. David,

    What beginner's tools would you recommend? I have a line on a nice stump of hardwood, but could use some advice on hammers/dollies!

    thanks, Bill
     
  20. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    I cant even find a good stump....post on craigslist looking for something like that and no one takes it serious....guess I just need to stop and ask when I see that stuff.
     
  21. skidsteer
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 1,251

    skidsteer
    Member

  22. in my town there is a recycling place that takes trees, wood, pallets, etc, grinds it up into all different sorts of landscaping material. All the stumps too big to grind are in a pile off to the side. The guys that work there can tell you what kind of wood they're looking at without fail.

    I'd bet there is something similar near you.
     
  23. willowbilly3
    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
    Posts: 4,356

    willowbilly3
    Member Emeritus
    from Sturgis

    The teaching is just a start toward being a proficient weldor. It takes lots of practice even after you have the theory part memorized. And practice with a good weldor showing you the dos and don'ts really helps, practice doing it wrong doesn't really count. I learned on stick wedlers, nowdays half the fabricators have never used one. The wire feeds are a lot easier and more stupid proof but I still use the stick welder for heavier stuff and critical components.
     
  24. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,625

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    OK in my opinion, for a start if you are serious about learning metalshaping you are going to find it hard to get a metal finish using mig. I know that some people are going to chime in and say mig is best but I strongly advise that you use gas welding. I use gas welding for most of the joints I do. Tig is another option which some people prefer, gas or tig are fine. Mig will give you a hard weld that needs grinding and is just about impossible to metal finish. If you want to join ally panels use gas welding only, tig will crack.

    As for tools the first tools you should get are dependant on what you intend to make, if you are going to make high crown panels then a stump or a sandbag and a hollowing hammer. For lower crown panels blocking hammers are good. (I will post up some links when I get a chance if you are interested.) Many tools can be made quite simply. Below is a photo of me using a home made flipper to smooth a panel. The panel was made entirely using hand tools.

    [​IMG]

    Here are a couple of samples of other repair sections made using only hand tools.

    [​IMG]

    I did not use a wheeling machine, shrinker stretcher or any other machine to create these sections. I show some of these techniques briefly on my youtube footage. (click the link below.)



    David
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2011
  25. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,625

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    [​IMG]
    Here is a sample of gas welding, You can see that the technique I teach gives you a very even HAZ (heat effected zone). This is important because distortion is caused not so much by the amount of heat that goes into the weld but how even that heat is. To explain - if you heat a piece of steel it expands as it cools it contracts beyond its original state (shrinks) so if a welded joint is heated more in one place than another it will expand more in one place than another and contract more in one place than another, this is what causes distortion. The welding technique that I teach can be used with tig or gas and is easier to learn than mig welding- I have taught a lot of people over the last twenty five years or so. Been doing this more than thirty years.

    David
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  26. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,257

    oj
    Member

    Too bad you are so far away, you could run amok in my shop for a while and maybe figure out a thing or two. Also go to 'All Metalshaping.com' (David, the post above this one is on there often) lots of talented metalmen on there and maybe one closer to you.
    oj
     
  27. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,625

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Here is a sample of a repair to a model 'A' wing (fender) done using gas welding

    [​IMG]
    David
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  28. Mindover
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,625

    Mindover
    Member
    from England

    Oh and hello OJ!

    David
     
  29. oldskoolflyer13
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 274

    oldskoolflyer13
    Member

    This is really good info, not only for me but for others in similar shoes. Definitely well appreciated....if your willing to share more....my ears and eyes are wide open. Thanks for the help and the links David
     
  30. oldblu65
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 121

    oldblu65
    Member
    from Tennessee

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