Hot Rods A 40 Ford Coupe for Uncle Mike Build Thread

Hey good news! Started the flathead today! We have 40 PSI oil pressure at idle 60 plus at 2500 RPM. And no leaks so far!
Here is what we did to fix the problems.
Oil Pump: We took it apart and found no problems with the pump.

The curious thing about the pump to me is that there is no O ring used in the groove just below the mounting base. A gasket is not used here either. Seems like you could get some leakage here..... but we did not change anything here.

Being naturally curious we took the pressure relief valve out to see how it was made and to confirm there was nothing holding it open.


Here is the pressure relief valve.


We put it back together and installed new safety wires to the PRV and the mounting bolt.
Here is the gear set of the pump. From what we could find on the HAMB we decided to add some STP to the gears just before we put the oil pan back on. The STP helps the pump get its' initial suction.


Pressure Relief Valves:
Originally the 59 series engines did not have an oil pump equipped with a PRV so this PRV located in the lifter cam gallery at the front of the engine


This is a photo of the forward pressure relief valve.
Notice the flat spot on the valve. Apparently this flat spot allows a flow of oil to the timing gear distributor gear area. So you you need to maintain that element of the PRV.

Since we read that the valve could be shimmed to basically make it inoperable I machined this shim in the lathe. It does not quite eliminate its PRV function but imagine it would take a lot of pressure to make it open. Some of the posters said that they just stretch the spring to make it open later but I decided to use the shim idea.

Loss of oil pressure after a short engine run:
I think this repair or change was the key to the oil pressure problem. When I initially built the engine I drilled out the fuel pump rod sleeve and installed a plug in the at the top of the boss mistakenly thinking I had blocked the oil flow from the cam gallery oil passage. I missed this modification by a mile......

This picture is looking forward from the back of the engine. That shiny thing down there is the cam lobe that the fuel pump rod is supposed to run on. The hole for the rod is 7/16 of an inch. The hole above it is the cam gallery at somewhere around 5/8" to 3/4". What I had done is plug just the top of the gallery and the bulk of the oil in the passage was flowing out that 7/16" hole to the cam. So that is why we could not maintain oil pressure.

So we surmised that we needed to plug this hole at the bottom. I machined this plug for an interference (slightly oversize) fit in the hole. It only took three tries on the old lathe to get it right since both the operator and the lathe are old and have trouble with exact measurements.

I tapped the plug for 5/16 x 18 thread so I could use this long bolt to aid with the install of the plug.

I tapped the plug into the hole while keeping track of the depth of the insertion with a couple of rulers. One on top of the bolt and one measuring off the block. I didn't have enough hands to do it and take a picture.

Then I removed the bolt.
Re installed upper plug
.
The results of this modification are good. The oil pressure is excellent and hopefully we are not starving any gears or bearings of oil in the rear passages.

I would advise that it would be much simpler to just shorten the fuel pump rod so it cannot make contact with the cam and install it into it's old hole and leave it. This was just a bad case of me not understanding which hole to block off and winging it. Something I seldom do but did this time.

The oil Pan Leak :

I don't know what to say here except we were very careful laying down the gaskets and used ultra black sealant on both sides of the oil pan rails and took extreme care in making sure the rear main cork gasket was cut to the correct length and added plenty of ultra black to it also. The oil pump modification make it very difficult to put the pan on . It is a two man job and requires some patience and dexterity. If you wait to apply the last of the sealant on the pan gasket until you have the oil line inserted through the oil pan you will spend less time scrubbing the black sealant off your forearms We didn't get any picture of this step either because we were to busy trying to get all of the gaskets, sealants and hoses installed before the sealant set up.

The result of the attention to detail seemed to have paid off as we do not have any leaks from the pan so far.
The engine ran well and maintained good water temperature and oil pressure. So now we can move on to getting the body prepped for the install on the frame.

 

i made this video last week to help explain better, tell me what you think

 

Hey EMS, how about chain boxes for '38-'40 Tudors/Fordors and trunk repair pans with the spare tire well for same? Been wanting those for 35+ years! Not everyone can afford coupes nowdays.

 

EMS that's a good video. Not your first You Tube video. Now that I see the rockers I would say that they are probably the ones I used on my coupe. They fit well.

 

Thanks Joel and dom. Encouragement is always appreciated and often needed on long term projects like this.

White 64 You are making great progress ! You have certainly committed to saving a coupe I would have walked away from. Please do a build thread on your project! I am sure many HAMBERS would love to watch the resurrection of your coupe.

As to the interior stuff I would say you are missing some of the structure in there. Not to worry though. Just put in whatever you need for the interior you choose to install.

 

Great that you got the oil pressure and leak sorted out. Now get to work and stab that body on.

 

Thanks ramjet! Yes we have moved on to the body stuff now. Hope to get it mounted in a couple of weeks.

Bolted the dash in to check out some electrical equipment placement issues this weekend. As usual with these old Fords we will be trying to stuff 20 lbs of stuff into a 10 lb box.

I wanted put the fuse panel on a hinge so that I could see it without laying on my back squeezed between the seat and the door jamb.

We left some extra mounting surface on the right for some of the additional electrical equipment.

A plastic 10/24 nut/knob secures the panel to the bottom of the dash.

The panel is attached via a piano hinge to a strip of 1/8" metal I welded to the firewall before the body went to the paint shop. It will be a tight fit for the wires on the left side but we think the will fit. The panel is an American Autowire Highway 22.

 

Awesome idea with the hinged fuse panel.

 

Thanks i.rant, I am certain I am not the first guy to think of it but I think this version should work well. Time will tell.

 

This is continuing to be one of my favourite threads!

 

I read somewhere on the HAMB that a '40 dash can be made to hinge down from the top if all the wires, etc. are long enough, and you have an electric speedometer or either disconnect the speedo cable. Said that removing the screws @ top and loosening those @ the bottom, along with dropping the steering column (assuming column shift has been removed) allows you to just hinge the wholw dash downwards.

 

Well, it does do that but not easily enough to access a fuse panel that way. I sure like the way The 39 Guy did his.

 

I made mine so the dash could hinge down as you describe and it works well while building or if you're home, in the garage and are trouble shooting problems. 39guy has a better setup for normal maintenance and access on the road. I like it. JMO

 

My comment had nothing to do with the fuse panel, other than it jostled my memory about this. What it will do is allow you much easier access to other things behind the dash panel. I agree that his hinged fuse panel is a good idea and should make fuse access much easier.
My comment is for things like I'm facing and so far haven't tackled, with a Bob Drake electric wiper setup that utilizes electric wiper motor and chain drive sprockets that has gotten out of whack since I bought the car.. If when you're wiring a '40 you leave a little slack in all the wiring that is involved in hinging the dash down, future events of this sort will be much easier to handle.
I'm 77 yrs. old, 6'3" tall, weigh 245#, and doubt my ability to get under that dash to fix those wipers. So far, thank God for Rainex.

 

That hinged dash idea appeals to me. Unfortunately I have a stock column in the coupe and it looks like that would make the rotation of the dash impossible. Perhaps in a car with an aftermarket column it would be a more practical exercise.

DOM I have had to work on wiper motors in these cars before (completed cars) and I agree it is no fun. If you can't find some young skinny guy to do the work I suggest taking the time to remove the seat before diving under the dash. It shouldn't take that long and makes the project less uncomfortable for guys our size.

Thanks to all of you guys for your positive comments on the hinged fuse panel.

 

Really like the hinged fuse panel. I have been under a lot of 40 dashes to fix wipers,radio ant etc and it is tight. Have a tough time getting back out so I undo the seat and move it back as far as I can then give it a go-just worked on one but the seat was out. At 72 a being a little worse for wear plus bifocals adds to the challenge as well.

 

Yeah, I expect that when I do tackle those wipers that I'll take the seat out. I need to get it out anyhow and investigate why the seat latch release to slide seat forward and backwards doesn't wok. The seat is a stock '40 with a first class rebuild and reupholstered in leather, but I would like to be able to slide it back and forth.
But righr now I'm preparing to do some Spring time work on BGII (my '31"A" hiboy roadster) for the upcoming few drags I race it at. So I'm keeping the Rainex handy!! LOL

 

This thread never ceases to amaze me ! Awesome work !

 

Well not that much progress. had to take a few steps back because of the driprails and blew the coupe body apart, I had the quarters on my desk fixing the wheel tubs (or at least the areas that I knew what they looked like, leaving the rear areas for now (they're missing)), the drivers side is a sedan wheel tub grafted to the coupe's qtr (forgive me, but I couldn't find ones for a coupe).

But now I need measurements!!! before I can move on....

• the width of the body at the top of the door jamb
• the width of the body at the bottom of the door jamb (using the tunnel as the lowest horizontal reference point)
• if you look at the pass wheel tub pic side it looks like the body needs to come down to cover the frame
  • this may indicate that the entire body needs to rotate and be lower in the rear (the frame has been leveled and is bolted to the garage floor, and the rubber cushions are in place)
• need to grind welds still...I hates grinding
• the roof is going to be a challenge since all of the mounting flanges are rusted off, was thinking about welding the remaining edge to the driprail and filling the entire driprail with seam sealer... the roof is in my driveway upside down, ...looks like a dead turtle.
• the tail-pan is just clamped on to see where to go next... it appears the toolbox pan is going to need some serious work...
• suggestions are encouraged!... as is encouragement!

Sam thanks for letting me jump on your thread, as there are a lot of '40 guys here with great information.

 

Hi Pat ( White 64) here are the measurements off of my coupe.


I have a couple of pictures of the interface between the rear inner fender and the frame.

Hope the pictures help give you a few reference points.

Your tail pan inner structure should look something like this when you are ready to weld your tail pan on.

That ugly looking seam filler between the pan and the quarter panel is not a weld..... It was later fixed with some more smoother seam filler.. Drake offers that corner piece but was out of them when we were doing this project so we made our own.

I know it is more work for you but let me encourage you ( you asked for that ) to put new drip rails on the coupe. Not only is a personal preference of mine but it is a very practical thing to have on the car. Carpenter should have them for sale.

Once again I admire your courage in taking on this project. Just take it on one project at a time so the enormity of the project does not overwhelm you. I hope you enjoy the journey. Take lots of pictures and put them on the thread you have started ( or start a new one) so we all can share the journey with you.
Sam

 

We spent the last week working on firewall stuff. We figured out what switches we needed and where to place them. Everything seems to need the item to be installed to be modified or the dash needed to be modified.

The big item was the heater. I bought this heater from a friend. He had taken it out of his 47 Ford pickup. It had a really straight housing and the defrost system that I wanted for those cold runs over the mountains to the Seattle area for car events. I also usually do a late fall foliage run each year and thought it would be nice to have a good heater.

Most of the restoration of this heater was done at least a year ago before we set aside and started working on the body of the car.

Heater was all there. Paint was worse for wear but heater was sound.

It actually has two fans one bladed and one squirrel cage spun by a reversible motor.

As far as we can tell the bladed fan pushes air through the core for heat and the scroll cage fan uses cabin air. There is also a butterfly valve to isolate the defrost ducts.

The core test out as good.


I found some advertising and instructions for the heater on the internet. That reversing switch turned out to be a challenge to find and I paid dearly for it on E pay. Mine is apparently the F21T.


Interesting price list. I paid more for the hose to hook it up than the heater cost back then. I'll continue this project on the next post.

 

Sam thanks a heap (pun alert) And my heap thanks you.

it looks like I have the rear body right on the money! and it's good to see the wheel well drop at the end of the qtr, all 5 of the wheel wells I had were missing it!

The door jamb measurements are a big help, the top was an inch off, the bottom about 1/2 inch.

Going out to weld the braces on right now ( I retired a week ago today after 37 years, so I have the time!)

 

Congratulations on your retirement! I am glad the measurements were helpful.

Now to continue the heater project.

After bead blasting the heater tins I noticed that the motor mount had been repaired at some point and was out of alignment. It also looked like it could fail at some point in the future.

So I decided to make a new base plate for the motor.

The new base plate was made form a heavy gauge steel and cut out with a dremel tool.

I drilled the plate for plug welds and attached it to the fan housing.

A new mounting scheme was planed for heater so I made some mounting plates from 1/8" steel strap.

I found this heavy washer in my washer can and installed it to space the fan motor out to what I hope is the original location for the motor. You can also see in this picture that the fan seal ring had been cut out with a torch for some reason (?).

A new 18 gauge plate was cut to fit the seal ring.

Just another shot of the seal ring marked for for truing up the edge.

Seal ring trued up.

New ring was plug welded to the case.

Another view of the fan seal ring.

We chose to keep the old 6 volt motor with the reversing feature but the wiring was pretty brittle and Don was able to rewire it.

After reassembling the motor we set the heater aside and went to work on other fun stuff for several months.
I hope this heater restoration is not too far off topic for you guys following the thread. I could have used a modern heater from Vintage air or some other Hot Rod heater offered these days but I have always liked these old heaters and wanted to maintain a little of the old car feel in the passenger compartment.

Edit Note: 1/31/16. During the fall shake down runs in October 2015 we found that the heater motor bearings were just too far gone. We eventually tried three different 6 volt motors but they all had a bad case of the wobbles. So I took Joel's advice and tried the NAPA 12 volt motor that V8 Bob recommended in post 324. The motor's NAPA # is BK 6551022. It cost about $35.00. The dimensions are very close and the motor fit right in the same mounting holes. I had to shorten the fan shaft about 1/2".

My main concern about this 12 volt swap was that the motor can only be wired to turn in one direction. The heater is designed to turn clockwise for cabin heat and counter clockwise for defrost. We did a bench test and discovered that the fan pushes plenty of air up the defrost hoses while turning clock wise.

So we took the 6 volt reducer out of the circuit and wired it to the 6 volt switch. I just did a short test in the car. The fan puts out much more air than the 6 volt motor did and is much more quiet than the 6 volt motor.

 

Well done on the heater fix. I have my original heater just haven't tackled it yet. V8Bob has found a napa 12volt motor that should work to replace the 6 volt, if you wish. The original switch, if it works, would be fine with 12 v.

 

Thanks Joel, I think we will stick with the 6 volt for now. If it gives me trouble I will change it out for a 12 volt motor.

So this week we figured out how to mount the heater and plumb it.

The mounting base was welded to the firewall before the car went to the painter. We drilled and tapped the 1 inch square tube and mounted an aluminum plate for the solenoid valve.

The servo valve is from a Vintage air kit. It is called, Servo Heater Control Valve Kit 50507-VUA
I tapped the mounting bosses for 8 x32 thread screws. I then placed the valve on a piece of clear plastic and match marked the plastic and aluminum.
Then I carefully removed the valve from the plate and marked the mounting holes for the valve on the plastic. Then I used a hole punch to make the holes in the plastic.

Then I lined the plastic back up to the mounting plate and lined up the match marks. This allowed me to transfer the mounting screw locations to the base plate. These holes were the drilled out and the valve eventually mounted on the plate.

Here is the valve and the modified plumbing required to run the water lines out through the cowl instead of through the firewall as originally designed. I like clean firewalls so all of this extra work went into keeping it clean. The copper tube is 1/2 inch (5/8" OD) type M copper. Don soldered all of the joints with lead free solder. All of the rubber hose connections will get stainless clamps during final assembly.

This is the ECU for the servo valve. It is mounted just to the left and above the heater.

Left side view.


Right side view. On the right you can see the dash 8 bulk head fittings.

We mocked up the inner fender panel and decided on this location for the bulkhead fittings.


The hoses will run outside the the inner fender up to the front shock area before they pass back through the the panel . I will show the final hose routing when get to it in the near future.Olscrounger will recognise this hose routing method. I used this sytem previuosly on my 39 with good success also .

To cover up all of the brackets and plumbing we fabbed this cover from some some thin steel from a junked out VCR case. So now it is all removed from the car again for some painting.
The front cover will get some gloss black automotive paint since I think it might get kicked once in a while and used as a foot rest by my Grandsons while the rest will get some rattle can semi gloss paint.

I will be taking a few days off now for some family time. When I get back on the car we will be making some more adjustments to the bodys' paint finish and then it will be time to mount the body on the frame. We are getting pretty anxious to get that body on the frame......








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You guys make my sedan rust seem like kids play. Wish I was a kid.

 

Not much going on in the shop lately. I have been preoccupied with family stuff. But I did get the spark plug wires replaced.You may remember that we found that the fancy red see through spark plug wires were not shielded or suppressor type and my electric tach went wild when the engine was turned on.

The original wire and cap assembly.

I always thought the red cap and MSD cover was too modern looking for this engine.

So I did a little investigation and found the Brillman Company offers suppression cored cotton braid spark plug wire. I ordered 25 feet of the red with black and yellow cross tracers. Turned out to be two feet short of what I needed. If I had been a little more careful on cutting my wires the first time around I probably would have been able to do it with 25 feet.

The wire was easy to work with. The core separated from the 7MM core easily and the core element bent easily also. I was able to reuse the MSD plug caps. I cut the retainer buttons off of each one and think they look much better.

I painted the cap semigloss black. The wires slid right into the chrome looms. Now I think it looks a little less modern or street roddy..........

I used wire ties to organize the wire looms. To do this you wrap one wire tie (1/8") around all of the wires (loosely)then insert a small wire tie between each wire pair (looped around the first wire tie) to provide a little separation and stiffness. As you apply the in between wires ties you slowly snug up the original surrounding wire tie. It's a cheap trick that just requires a little patience and time and IMHO looks better than loose wires.

The MSD cap uses 90 degree spark plug wire terminals I had purchased a box of 100 part number 34615 ends at a swap meet a couple of years ago so I was able to use them on this project. The cloth coverd wire is not cheap but it appears to be high quality stuff and Brillman was good to deal with.

 

More awesome work and detailing,what a great thread.

 

Thanks i.rant, lothiandon1940 and Kiwijeff, It's always nice to get a positive comment!

 

great work !!!! really nice 40