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Technical A 265 Chevy build with a cool story

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by bfalfa55, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,266

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Those notched bores are going to drop the CR also, and it might even be an issue with head gaskets as the fire ring will have to be "outside" of the notches; head gaskets will HAVE to be matched to the modified bores. But, it's a really good start, and if the notches are an issue, you already have another 265 block to swap the rotating assembly into. Like Roothawg said, you'll have less of a CR than you might think with a small bore and stroke engine; probably no more than 10:1 the way it's set up, and with the heads you plan on using. The 461 X heads on my 340 HP 327 short block have pinned studs, and that engine has been in my FED, my 63 Chevy II station wagon, and my truck (where it finally burned a lightened exhaust valve), and one day may wind up in my Delivery. Those heads are also "old school" and are ported/polished on both the intakes and exhaust ports, as well as the chambers being polished, valves polished and lightened (now I have different Manley, tulipped valves in them however). Someone, at sometime, put a lot of time and effort into them, not to mention $$$. Don't worry about the pinned studs, until you have to, and that will probably never happen. You really don't need "big" valve heads on a 265, especially on a streeter, but since you have them, the block is notched for them, and you want to try it, go for it. I'm going to be watching this build closely. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  2. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,942

    Roothawg
    Member

    FYI, I used a head gasket for the 305.

    Also here is a number you will need if you ever change the rear cam plug. They are thinner than the standard rear plug. Dorman P/N - 555 046
     
  3. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    I was going to modify the annular groove in the rear cam bearing so it oils like all the other small blocks. I figured the pinned studs would be fine. That's what dad said they always did and didn't have any issues with under .500 of lift. I'm sure they are cast looking up inside them. They are solid on top, just not sure who might have made them circa 1992 (no name or part number I can see) when he put the engine together. Any ideas ? I ran the Howards cam you listed in a version of Desktop Dyno and compared it to how my 350 is setup right now and I was impressed comparing the 2. The 265 should run pretty close to mt plans with that cam. What do you think your compression ratio is ? Do you have to run it on the highest pump gas ? I was considering running the 265 on ethanol to see if it would gain a little more power but I may try that after I run it on plain pump gas first.
     
  4. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Thanks Butch. I was waiting for you to chime in. You have helped direct me a lot along the way of this build. It is much appreciated. The notches are substantial. I am sure he matched them to at least a 4.1o bore gasket since his main engine was a 302. These heads have lite surface rust but I saw a finished set of heads the guy did and if it is a good example of this guys work, these heads should be spot on. He didn't port them big, just did all the right smoothing and shaping in all the places they should be. Only thing he didn't do on them was unshroud the valves. When I find the correct gasket, I will start on the heads.
    Thanks Roothawg. I am probably going to have to us a 4 in bore gasket because the previous owner made the reliefs to match all the parts from his 302 main engine. Thanks for the part number. I actually have the rear plug he never installed it because he never put a cam in it. I am hoping I can find a shim gasket the correct size because like was previously mentioned by you guys, I know it is going to drop compression. I'm sure I will be happy with this engine. My 350 has been together along time and it has a few lifters that don't always want to pump up. If I am going to tear into enough to do that, I think I will have more fun build the little 265.
     
  5. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,942

    Roothawg
    Member

    Here's a calculator. The hard part os figuring out what the domes are on your pistons. I standard Fel Pro gasket is .038" and a steel shim is approx .016".

    http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html
     
  6. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,350

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll give you $109.56 for it sight unseen, almost. I think you hit the lottery, bfalfa55. Those deals don't come along but once in our lifetime. I am still waiting.
     
  7. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Yeah I didn't think I could lose at $100. Did find one of the pistons has a crack and no good. My son has dibs on it for the future as he wants to find a 56 Chevy and wants to build his own 265 but we will see. If you see the second 56 short block I bought, I think it's an even better deal.
     
  8. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    You might want to see what you can sell that 265 for? You'd be surprised what someone restoring a car who needs your casting numbers and date codes would pay?
    $1000, $1500....$2,000?

    When I was looking for something early for my car at first, I was shocked how much more it costs to build a 265 or 283 then it does to build a 350.

    It is a shame someone notched the block for clearance, but people do odd things when they don't know better.


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  9. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    That notching of the block wasn't that he really didn't know better. With the setup he had for his other engine with 1.94 heads, it was needed for the large lift cam he was using. I am either going to work with it as it will take away from my compression or I will use the other block I have as it is in good shape and can still be bored to .060 over for this rotating assembly.
     
  10. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    Didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing your piece if it did.

    I was referring to the valve notch for the bigger heads being a bad idea because of the poor performance it would cause having the valve shrouded by the cylinders edge. A little time on the dyno shows a lot of things just don't work well like we think they might.
    But if it was done a long time ago, people tried anything they could think of.


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  11. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    No problem, didn't take it that way. what's done to it is done. The rotating assembly in this engine was done nicely. One way or another, a 265 is going together from these parts.
     
  12. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Cc'd the pistons and cylinders unshrouding today and I am at at net of about +8cc's. If I don't use the other block and this rotating assembly, there will be a small blower setup in the near future. The first of the year has a great new job (and parts spending option) open for me. I have a possible job offer that will DOUBLE my wages or more on the horizon ! Pray for the job please, as it will help this build a lot !
     
  13. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    Nice, pulling for you, hope it works out! Keep us posted!


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  14. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Well using Roothawg's compression calculator, I can run from 9.48 to 11.17:1 for compression with the thinnest head gasket. the 9.48 is the 1.94 64 cc heads, the 11.17 is the 1.84 53cc chamber 305 heads. I will calculate the dynamic ratio later and I will check your guys opinions.
     
  15. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Forgot to add that the block is standard deck height. Using the Howard's cam Roothawg showed earlier in this thread (I like the numbers this cam shows) I would have a dynamic ratio from 8.03 to 9.45, dynamic cranking pressure from 160 to 197. I think the 9.45 dynamic will put me in the race gas only area unless any of you know otherwise. I could probably back that off with a thicker gasket. Also I posted earlier that I was a net +8cc. It may be more around 6. Trying to get an accurate cc on the cylinder unshrouding cuts is a little tough.
     
  16. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    I will not be using the Howard's cam after all. I had bad info. entered in the dyno program, no big loss. Here is the cam I am going with now: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-08-432-8/overview/.
    I have posted what the compression ratios will be with the heads I have. What do you guys think ?
     
  17. 39cent
    Joined: Apr 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,569

    39cent
    Member
    from socal

    Gads ! I,m having flash backs to 1958 when I rebuilt my 56, 265 at jr. collage auto shop. I bored it to 283, bought a set of 10 1/2 to one, Merryman pistons. Since I had a job as delivery boy at the local parts house got some real good discounts at Chevy and my parts place, $19 for vette distributor, 25 for Duntov 3o/30 cam, lifters, springs etc.
    I could even afford that stuff back then. Also got a Shiefer aluminum flywheel,performance clutch, and balance job. Got a Corvette dualquad and big valve head off a dragster. Sadly I had to sell it [to a buddy]]before getting it running to buy the Deuce in my avatar. but that thing hauled A-- when I drove it in his 56 Chevy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  18. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    That is a nice cam, should give a really aggressive idle. A bit on the large side for a 265, but if rumpety rump is what you want, you'll have it!
    In my 355 I went with one at 224@050 duration and .488 lift with 110 lobe separation. But I'm using an automatic with overdrive and didn't want a really loose convertor for street driving.

    If you're running a manual trans and brakes, it will be awesome and racey! I'd put the power band in your application about 3200-7000 rpm.


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  19. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Yeah Wedjim that is the RPM range I am after (and this cam shows in the dyno program) and figure it will be fun and still street friendly. This was one of the cams Comp Cams program suggested for my build info. Another cam, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-12-423-8/overview/ is a little smaller and shows some similar numbers.
     
  20. wedjim
    Joined: Jan 1, 2014
    Posts: 420

    wedjim
    Member
    from Kissimmee

    Both good cams!
    The second one would just be a little easier if your running power brakes, or an automatic. You'd be able to stay with a 2000-2400 stall convertor like I did, although you'd be little closer to the edge, lol.

    Look at your dyno calculator numbers to see how broad the power band is for both. Since both will have a nice cammy idle, if your not in need of the vacuum at idle, that is the only real factor for street driving and stop light action.

    You could also look at cams with more overlap for more rumpety rump(108 lobe separation, etc)

    If the meat of your torque curve average, not the peak, lasts from say 3600-5100 at 300 ft lbs, with cam 1, but it lasts from 3200-4900 with cam 2, you'll feel the added 300 rpm that the torque lasts and feel more real world power.



    The only caution I could give is that the aggressive cams that are great at the track, tend to feel a bit soft on the street. Since even with huge peak numbers, the window is so narrow you only feel the pull in a tiny window of rpm.


    But the cool factor is huge in our hobby too! Just ask the guys with $7,000, 200 hp flat heads! :)




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  21. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    I am running a bare bones ride. No power brakes, no power steering and a 4 speed (maybe a 5 speed in the future) with no less than 3.70 gears. I am trying to stay in the 110 min. lobe separation so that a possible "boost" can be in the future if need be. The second cam has a bit more torque but a little less "spin to the moon" factor. The first cam can probably be twisted to a max. of 7K. Nothing like a semi high winding 3" stroke small block chevy ! Not 8 or 9K bust still fun. If I give up a little street manners, the fun of wide open throttle will be worth the fun.
     
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  22. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,266

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I may be on my way back to building a large journal 265! Bought a newly machined 1178 302 crank (after having another one in a storage locker stolen some time back-), and have several sets of aftermarket rods. So now I need a stock bore to bore it .014 over, or a 305 block that will take a .030 plus..014 bore size in order to use 265 pistons. Any "new" 265 forged pistons out there in HAMB LAND for sale, trade, or my eternal love and respect? I am Butch/56sedandelivery. (otherwise my 4 bolt 350 block will get the parts, but I really want a mini mouse motor)
     
  23. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    That's cool Butch ! I don't have any pistons. The only pistons I found in my quest for parts were .060 Jahns cast domed pistons, new in the box with wrist pins for $200+shipping on the Class Racer website.
    I will keep my eye out for anything. Do you want them to be flat tops or domes or doe it matter ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  24. 39cent
    Joined: Apr 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,569

    39cent
    Member
    from socal

     
  25. 39cent
    Joined: Apr 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,569

    39cent
    Member
    from socal

    bak in the day the guys that really knew about hopping up rods were racing, and nubees like me were watching, and we figured the bigger the better! Big cams,milled heds,4 carbs,[OHV,s in th 50;s] I couldnt afford racing so I was a street rodder, and it was cool to have a rod 'so the old timers would talk to ya]'// [maybe]. I had installed the 265 in my first rod it was a stock 2dr model A. Got off a car lot for $175. Ask around the old guys, [lotta them were WW2 vets] find how to put a V8 in a A bone. Oh simple! Well, gotta go to the 'blacksmith shop',yep we had one. Cut out the A bone stuff then weld in a 32 wishbone and center cross member so you can bolt the flathead trans to the A rear end. The wishbone and trans will bolt up as I recall.?? [any way Ididnt have any problems]. OHH I got the latest info, 42 to 48 rear ends are great! So I asked around and found out, I would need to cut the driveshaft! the go to guy was in Mira Loma!. And he actually was, $10 bucks! for a great job. But then another thing, the axles stuck out the fenders! ugly but 'liv with it'. Ohh and by the way you need to cut a huge hole in the firewall! 'Liv wit it', I used some angle iron for the engine mounts, didnt do anything to the radiator, didnt heat up w the chevy even w/o a fan! cant recall much else now tired.
     
  26. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,266

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I believe I've mentioned in the past I have a friend who races a 55 in Super Stock. Hopefully, he'll have some usable
    pistons. If not, I'll hunt some down somehow. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  27. I had a uncle who was a GM mechanic. He called the 55 265,s the 90 day wonder. The engines had solid lifters and no valve reliefs. the engine would rev until the points bounced. The hot rodders figured out to double spring the points. they then wount it up and collided the valves with the pistons. 90 day warranty. He quit GM and went to work for Ford because he got stuck doing the warranty jobs, He got paid a book rate. only received about $12.50 for changing out a engine. In 56 they went to hydraulic lifters and the valves would float before damaging the engines. every tri five stock original engine I ever seen had the flat tops without the valve reliefs. In 58 the 283 has the 4 relief pistons.
     
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  28. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Contacted Jones Cams and these are what Mike Jones from Jones Cams recommended:
    Cam# SBCH, H70330-72330-108
    224/228 @ .050"
    .330"/.330" Lobe Lift
    .495"/.495" Valve Lift
    108 LSA
    Price: $249.69

    Lifter# J842H
    .842" Hydr F.T. lifter set
    Price: $89.83

    Spring# JRC15
    1.250" Single Spring w/Damper
    130# @ 1.750", C.B. 1.160"
    Price: $92.00

    With the blower, I would change the cam to,
    Cam# SBCH, H70330-72334-110
    224/232 @ .050"
    .330"/.334" Lobe Lift
    .495"/.501" Valve Lift
    110 LSA

    Ironically, what I was looking at from Comp Cams and other camshaft places, I picked cams that were basically the same as the (2) Jones Cams suggested. I am going to ask Mike Jones if he also has some HP/torque numbers based on these cams.
     
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  29. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Sad that this thread is this old and it's still not built but it will get there, hopefully this summer. I am still going to build it normally aspirated to have fun with my 265 but I want to make it modernly blown and modernly fuel injected to see what I can actually get from the little beast !. New job is super busy but a lot more money. Have a city sewer to connect to and we are upgrading our daily driving cars, then I will get back to the 55 soon. I found an Edlebrock C26 for cheap that is a little beat up and I got the M112 for $221 ! Need to get the dimensions right and make an adapter plate. It will be a while before I finish the blown/fuel injected setup but I had to take a mocked up pic !
     

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    Last edited: May 4, 2015
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  30. bfalfa55
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 223

    bfalfa55
    Member

    Yes I am dragging my feet TOO MUCH with this engine but I have found out a old school mate who is a gear head has a full machine shop in his barn. I will be able to to do all my own machining with him.

    That being said, I made a purchase of some Aluminum L98 heads.
    The heads came today and they look like very nice pieces to start with. But I have a question for you: On one face of both heads is the number 30832A and a SKULL AND CROSS BONE stamp that looks like the Lunati Voo-Doo logo. Why would they be stamped in the face of a GM head ?
     

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