hello fellas, i'm new here. Looks like a lot of good info and i'm glad to be a part of the hamb. i have a question about 95% oil filtration for my 50 8BA. I have read the options available for this mod. I want to go with the simple solution by Carl Roseville from the flathead tech page. This option is drilling into the gallery and redirecting the oil to an outside filter then back into the engine. My question is this. Carl does not discuss any mods to the oil pump. I have read where some guys talk about shimming the stock spring or stretching it, or putting in a stiffer spring. all that sounds good but it seems to be less than an exact science. How stiff a spring? How much stretch? how thick of a shim? Although it may be more expensive, wouldn't going to a high preassure pump be an alternative to messing with the spring? has anyone done this? Do i need to mod the pump at all with this oiling route? As i stated, Carl's article does not mention any mods to the oil pump. Can anyone shed some light on the pump part of this scenario ?
I had a couple of flatheads a long time ago. As I recall the pressure was low, something like 15 pounds max. And I remember that Ford said that pressure in the system was only to indicate that the oil was circulating. I also remember someone using a Lincoln pump with a truck pan for more volume. As far as shimming the spring, you can put a couple of washers behind it, but it's not an exact science, especially if your spring is still the original. Perhaps someone who specializes in them could give you a better idea. On engines that I've bought a high volume pump for, they usually come with a higher pressure spring installed, and sometimes provide a stock spring with the pump.
It's an art. You could attempt to make it an exact science, but it's not that critical... Or run it as-is. Or run a hi-vol pump. Take your pick, but whatever you do, run a late-model (49-54) pump if you've got the early engine...
Shimming the spring or putting in a stiffer spring will only affect the relief pressure. If your bearings are so worn it's not making pressure you've got bigger fish to fry. A second on the late pump, helical gears are better. Flatman
Flatman speaks the truth. But you might delay the inevitable a while longer...flatheads are known for running forever with low oil pressure (particularly at hot idle).
Its a fresh 8ba still at the machine shop, I think he is just wondering which is best. My suggestion was to get high volume pump, if couldnt find one then we could shim the spring and gain a little, its no problem to pull the pan in the truck so a little trail and error on the pump isnt a big deal. Heres the truck in question, work in progress. 8ba, T5, new juice brakes, and more. Gonna be a nice ride, cause I wont let it leave any other way! Lots more pics of the build in my photobucket
Hey Tin, thanks for posting the pics. I would have called you out but wasn't sure what you went by on here. Da Tin man is a rockin' fabber folks. And as he says, the project won't leave untitl it's right! I started out wanting to build a "rat rod" ( i know, don't fry me for using the term ) but Tin wouldn't have it. In the end i'll be glad we took it a big step futhur and made it a car that can actually be driven without worries and get a whole lot more respect from guys that actually know what they are looking at. More to come as the project nears completion. I can almost taste it! Tin, your lucky i'm a patient man, and i'm lucky to have found you!
A high volume pump won't necessarily increase pressure. We've found that most stock high volume pumps have the same springs as the low volume pumps. All they do then is bypass more oil back into the pan. To increase the amount of oil you have to increase pressure. 15 psi is the same amount of oil no matter what pump is pushing it.
You don't need a higher pressure or a high volume pump unless your racing it. Carl's method has no effect on the oil pressure iin the system. I would just put in a new standard pump & pickup and leave it like that. Butch
I just use a stock 8BA style Mellings oil pump in all my flatties. However, I stole this snippet off the MSN site; 'The stock Mellings pump relief valve spring is 1.380" long. Stretching it to 2-1/16" will increase oil pressure in the neighborhood of 15 psi.'
So far as I'm concerned, volume is as important as pressure. Make sure lines to and from filter are at least 3/8" ID. This is a setup done with 1/2" S.S. tubing.
Geez, guys, isn't anybody gonna trot out the old "suck the pan dry" story? Or is a flattie immune to that since it doesn't have valve covers to store all the missing oil in? See, real engines don't have valve covers!
Back in '67 I worked as a wrench at a discount dept. store (Arlan's) in Milwaukee. My boss, Pat Cockey (real name) was from Dallas and an old car salesman. Pat always told the story about buying flatty powered Fords for $10.00 because the owners sold the car before it blew up due to no oil pressure. Pat said they'd just take off the gauge glass, bend the needle of the oil pressure to read "15", and they were lot ready. No one ever mentioned the engine had the same oil pressure running or not.
There's a nice looking shoebox on eBay that they're selling because of low oil pressure! About three years ago, Ol Ron & Bruce Lancaster had an interesting discussion on replacement oil pumps for flatheads not fitting tightly enough in the block causing loss of oil pressure once warmed up. Later, maybe a year ago or so, someone on here reported the seat for the bypass ball was machined off-center in their pump & they had to re-do it. So Melling QC may be in question. I think a HV pump will mask some of these issues to an extent. Not sure hi-pressure is required in a flatty... YMMV
Drilling the block for the full flow oil system can only be done safely at major overhaul time, when all the drill chips can be cleaned out of the oil galleys. To shim the spring on a new pump, remove the spring, and put two flat washers the same OD as the spring on one end. Use a stock replacement pump, but take it apart and check it out. My flatty has 65 PSI fast idle cold, 45 to 60 down the highway, and 10 hot slow idle. I have seen good flattys run at 3 PSI hot idle.
My 8BA has 40psi at startup, 5psi going down the road and 1 or 2 psi at hot idle. And it just drove 300 miles to and from the Showdown without a single problem, backfire, anything. Love them flattys
You mean we cant just spray some carb cleaner in there and wash out the pan?? The block is still at machine shop,, they did the drilling and such before it was tanked so we are good there. I know that flatties will run forever on 2-3 lbs, but being a fresh motor why not give it a little more cushion while its apart.
hello all, thanks for the many replies to my question. i thought i would mention that the hi vol pump sold through speedway is 1-1/4" longer than a stock pump. Doesn't look to me like the hi vol will clear the pan without mods to the pan. I don't think i want to have " no headroom " just in case i bottom out or catch something with the pan even if it would "just clear". Also, without extending the entire bottom of the pan, one would end up with a "sump" of sorts. i suppose moving the drain plug to the bottom of this "sump" would at least allow full drainage of used oil (and whatever particals may be present after a break in). i think i'll just go with the tried and true shim or stretch and call it a day. not trying to go overboard on the subject, but i wanted to do the best thing for a fresh motor. Thanks again for all the comments. i'll reply when it's running just to help confirm the outcome of the spring mod.
The Jalopy Journal
