Hey all, Trying to wrap my head around flange offset. I know what it is and how it's measured. Problem: I would like to change it to a more standard 2.5"offset. I've got a '57 ranch wagon rear and it's got an oddball 2.390" offset. As far as I can tell it is the axle that determines offset. Researching bearings and weld-on housing ends there are no specs on bearing thickness or bearing pocket depth. Am I correct to assume that these are all the same? Also, leaning toward replacing the ends on the housing, the bolt pattern is also an oddball. Is there any benefit to switching to big bearing? Thanks, Jeff
Jeff, Several of the aftermarket axle guys will use a spacer between the axle step and the bearing itself to accommodate a larger offset. Be aware that there are two diameter axles (at the bearing) for 9 inchers. These relate to the bearing O.D. The small O.D. bearing actually fits the larger diameter axle. There are folks on here that say that the small bearings are prone to failure, but I have never had problems with them. To me the problem is which brake backing plates will accommodate which offsets and which drums? You need to match the backing plates to the bearing cups or vise versa.
I have just removed the retainers and bearings from the axles. It appears that there is some damage from over zealous maintenance. I should probably replace those also. If that is the case, can the axles be ordered with the appropriate step to create whatever offset I wish? I will be getting an aftermarket disc brake kit but they don't make it for the weird offset I've got. Cannot imagine finding the right backing plates and drums. How do you guys do it? Thanks for the response, Jeff
Jeff, What is the 'wierd' bearing retiner bolt pattern. I'm no expert on 9" Fords, but I'm pretty familiar with axle bearings and offsets because the same parts are used on the Quickchanges I build. Can you post some pictures of what you have?
Was told it was from a '57 Ranch Wagon. As you can see, the dimension is 3.325". It is the correct 2" the other way. Bearing is 2.835" O.D., and 1.378" I.D.
Memory says there are 3 different flanges, 2 different bolt patterns and one of those has 2 different bolt sizes...
This is my first ground up project so I've got nothing in the memory banks to pull from, that's why you guys are such a great help to us! The flange guides that I've seen show the small, and the 2 bigs, old and new style. Each has their own bolt pattern, but mine isn't one of them. I was just so happy to find a 9" already the right width, I didn't know it would be such an albatross. Jeff Sent from my SM-G935T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Believe me, I've checked and rechecked. I'm telling ya, albatross. Sent from my SM-G935T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I have what is supposed to be a 9" out of a Galaxy and it has the same measurements. 3.325" x 2.00" with a bearing OD of 2.835".I looked on a few sites but nowhere were these measurements mentioned. Close to the small ford/early mustang spec but they are supposed to be 3.375" x 2.00"
Did you keep the drum brakes or come up with a solution? Sent from my SM-G935T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Keeping it drum brake but have fit F1 brakes to the front so looking at either changing the rear drums and redrilling the axles to 5x5 1/2" and sorting drums to suit or redrilling the front hubs to late ford pattern and finding drums to suit. Strange there is no mention of this bolt pattern anywhere,there must be shitloads of these diffs around.
Here is a link that has the different flange bolt patterns and bearing bore size. This info should tie down what housing you possess. I had to actually click on each heading/description to get the image to appear. http://www.pro-werks.com/page/WILHFID/
You guys rock! Like most of you I cannot find that bolt pattern either. Looks to me that it was an 'early' deal that has been abandoned for some time. But to answer Jeff's question: yes you can have axles made with whatever bearing journal diameter and offset you want and you can get housing ends in the 3 common configurations. Note that bearings are available for either the 3.150" or 2.835" O.D. bearing cups and I.D.s of 1.562", 1.532" and 1.377". My advice is to get the brakes you intend to run, make sure what offset is needed and then get the axles to match. If you want to retain your original axles, you can get the available small bearing housing ends and put them on your housing. Just remember that to get them centered correctly you will need to jig everything up. If you need custom axles, send me a private conversation, I can probably save you a few $.
You know, after looking at the whole thread again with all the diagrams etc. If you want the disc brakes, I think I would elongate the bolt holes in the flanges you have (.025" each side). Most disc brake kits can be shimmed to allow for minor offset discrepancies. Or, just find brakes for your existing backing plates, and drums to fit.
I have arranged for a street rod shop to jig it up to determine straightness and will determine the course of action to take.. Pretty certain new axles and ends will be in the picture. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, I am feeling more comfortable making these descisions now. Jeff
Here is something interesting, the axle flange guide we all see when Googled says the small Ford bolt pattern is 3.375" Wilwoods website shows it at 3.336, what's up with that? So of course I had to recheck my flange yet again. Needed to use the cheaters to see it, but it's not that either. Also for you guys on the fence about doing your own rear end work (narrowing/straightening) because you don't have a jig. Found these while researching all this. $99 gets you the bushing kit and $50-60 gets you a 1 1/4" gets you a precision ground alignment bar. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rearend-Nar...m4b142e865a:m:mjzKWnO36JdmD4wwoG6a4pg&vxp=mtr http://www.speedymetals.com/ps-1625-101-1-14-rd-1045-turned-ground-polished-000-001.aspx Jeff
Looks like small ford pattern to me. Only one of your measurements is off by a mere .011" which could be production tolerance or even a burr around the edge of the bolt hole. You just have to figure the brake offset. I suppose it is possible somebody put the wrong width bearings in there. or left out some spacers. Some of those early fords had 1-3/4, 2, or 2-1/4 wide brake shoes.
No burr, all holes are clean and all measurements consistent. Interestingly tho, I just checked the backing plates, they DO measure 3.336 exactly. Another Hamber also has oddball 3.325 pattern flanges. I wonder if a few mis-adjusted drill/punch parts made it through QC. Does this mean there are both 3.336 AND 3.375 pattern small bearing flanges out there? Sent from my SM-G935T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Pretty sure all small bearings are 3.336. There's a lot of BS on the internet. I edited my last post with other possibilities.
I think the measurement should be from the back of one hole to the center of the other . that's how manuf. measure bolt pattern
are your back plates for 11'' drums 'even though they are 2.88/small bearing' if so, they run a 11 by 2 1/4'' drum hense minus the 1/4''
Thanks for responding, Nobby. Yes to 11", but I'm pretty sure I'm going with Wilwood discs at this point. One of the backing plates is bent (hard to find) and I will be running with an open wheel design. Jeff Sent from my SM-G935T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
Stumbled across this post while trying to verify axle to housing offset! Found my answer! Figured I'd chime in on something close to my tool box.... I specialize in Ford tilt-away steering columns and rear disc brake conversions, plus keeping a fleet of Ford powered cars roadworthy! Hey! What's .050" among friends??? I think production tolerances is what's to blame here..... The bolts are definitely undersized for the backing plates......so not an issue. Typically. Ford actually has 4 flanges in play during the 60's-70's, avoiding the 7 & 8.8" housings...... 1) TINY- This is the smallest...and used with the non removable carrier found in 6 banger cars..... NOBODY uses these as nothing performance fits them.......far reaching statement....don't need to correct me if someone actually is still using one that hasn't blown it's gears...... 2) SMALL- this is the standard bearing found in Mustangs, Cougars, Galaxies etc 2.875" diam bearing. The 90's Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car disc brakes bolt right up to this pattern (3.125-ish x 2") 3) LARGE- here you have the truck bearings, some of the 50's cars, some T-Birds? Edsels? Versailles, Lincolns This bolt pattern is unique but the Explorer Discs from 95-03(04?) will work on them if you do a little rat tail file work on three of the holes, about .063" worth...... 4) TORINO- This is a bastard..... Large bearing size but a goofy smaller flange bolt pattern. Started in about 73 or 74 on the Torino line of cars across Ford and Merc's. This is the odd pattern that 95" EXPLORER DISC BRAKES FIT! ....directly as a bolt on!!!! Issue is that any rear you find with this pattern is likely not a leaf spring suspended piece so will need to have coil mounts removed and spring perches added.... If you are having Currie or so build you a housing, you can specify these ends....so that you can use the Explorer brakes...... PLEASE understand that you need to have bearing spacers installed on your axles if you are doing either of these swaps, because the backing plates are thicker than the drum plates...and without them, your axles will walk in and out!!! A LOT!!! Trying not to violate the rules here, mentioning this.....but I know these things as I researched the parts, wrote instructions, and manufactured precision spacers to help do this swap for the small bearing housings and small hub axles (to keep the rotors centered). I will share what you need for the large bearing swaps if you contact me. You can find my parts online under my id fastmerc. I started doing this as many were/are selling disc brake conversions but NO ONE was mentioning anything about the required spacers! Even Wilwood wasn't selling spacers with their kits for a while.....!!! Still one of the cheapest & easiest rear disc swaps one can do, with maintenance parts available at the corner store and any police station.... .......and if it works to haul a Crown Vic or Town Car down from speed.......should handle our rods just fine.......! Cheers! Have a great day! Steve
just bringing this old thread up for some clarification. i have noticed no one said anything about bolt hole size. i have found 3/8 and 1/2 size bolt holes in the flange before. i have even drilled them out to match backing plates.
I have one of those housings as well, it is a 5 bolt pattern (not in the catalogs like Strange etc), I'd whack the ends off and put on an end that will work with your disc brake. Looks like somebody has been welding on it anyway and with the new ends you'll be able to true it up.
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