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8BA Flathead Torn Down - Don't Laugh

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by countrysquire, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    Picked up my '50 8BA flathead last Saturday, along with an attached sideshift transmission, '39 transmission, '49 F1 brakes, and 49 F1 steering wheel. Motor was stuck, but owner claimed that it had been stored indoors, FWIW. Spent Saturday afternoon and half of Sunday tearing it down, found that the #3 piston was what was stuck, but it looked generally good overall, Crank is standard and cylinders are .060" over. There are a couple of visible cracks between the water passages and bolt holes, but a preliminary dye penetrant test showed no cracks in the valve areas, so hopefully I will be OK. Should be off work late next week, so hopefully I can get it to the machine shop for a pressure test.

    One problem though. Not sure what the record is, but I managed to break off 27 head bolts. 20 effin 7. Tried every trick I knew to free stuck bolts, but it just didn't work out for me. Looks like I'm about to get A LOT of practice at removing broken bolts...

    Bobby
     
  2. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,709

    khead47
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And the winner is......
     
  3. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    Now I'm kinda wonderin' what the record is.
     
  4. You sure you were turning them the right way? ;)
     

  5. Fighter-of-Wars
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 294

    Fighter-of-Wars
    Member

    thats weird actually how you twisted that many off, and the motor was descent shape.

    I had a 59-AB that I took the heads off and never twisted a one off, the motor sat outside for years and water poured out of the cylinders as the heads came off. But the nuts all came off fine.
     
  6. Ravenwood
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 237

    Ravenwood
    Member
    from Texas

    I have an engine of head studs to remove. I hope you keep that record. :)
     
  7. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    Actually, I tried tightening them just a bit to start, in an attempt to break the bond, but found no love. The gaskets didn't look that old and everything else came apart with no trouble, it was just the damn head bolts. In hindsight, I should have cut the heads off the bolts, removed the heads, then soaked the remaining studs for a few days. Yeah, hindsight...
     
  8. Fighter-of-Wars
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 294

    Fighter-of-Wars
    Member

    I don't follow you say you have bolts? My flathead has studs with nuts.

    Anyway, if you twisted the bolt/stud off flush with the head it's not to bad.

    Once the head is removed. My dad showed me to get on them with a pipe wrench or vise grips and put some pull in the loosen direction and tap straight down on top of the stud with a hammer. It has worked for me several times.

    If you twisted it off flush with the deck. Well, then it gets a little more tricky.
     
  9. mtflat
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 422

    mtflat
    Member

    Fighter, you have a 59AB with studs/nuts

    countrysquire has an 8BA with bolts

    They came from the factory that way.

    countrysquire - you used a socket and wrench didn't you? Air wrench is much better, keeping torque even on all sides of the nut. Think the most I've ever broken is 3 on an engine, but that was with a socket/wrench - so you win lol
     
  10. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    Used an IR impact on them. Had two that wouldn't budge until I had 140psi on the line. They spun right out with no problem once there was enough force. They simply refused to break and stood up to punishment like you would expect fasteners made during that time would. The rest? Not so much, might as well had been made in China.
     
  11. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,720

    junk yard kid
    Member

    just do the welding a washer and or nut to the broke off stud trick. Then try to find some stock bolts to replace them in you can. they have a much better thread fit then remakes.
     
  12. That has to be a frigging record! I've taken a ton apart and never broke more than a couple. :eek:
     
  13. Saxon
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,157

    Saxon
    Member
    from MN

    Maybe someone put some loctite on them when installing? Congrads on the record! Or maybe congrads on the engine choice!
     
  14. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 785

    Vergil
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Was thinking the same thing....
     
  15. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 25,273

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    they might have done what my Dad and I did with my first car, a trusty/rusty '53 Merc. We knew little about flatheads. so, after changing a blown head gasket and having no torque wrench we used a socket/breaker bar with a long pipe extention on it and just tightened them down real good. ran fine after that and replacing the timing gear.
     
  16. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    I don't like taking long assembled things apart with an impact wrench. I'd rather have the "feel" of a breaker bar in my hands and alternate tightening and loosening torque until the fastener breaks loose. Not saying I would have had any better success than you did but in all of the years of disassembling engines (litterly hundreds) I don't believe I've broken off more than a half dozen bolts OR studs. I learned basic mechanics from my grandfather who was a genius when it came to anything mechanical. The best thing he taught me was to be patient and to "think" about what is going on.

    Frank
     
  17. Giovanni
    Joined: Jan 21, 2010
    Posts: 173

    Giovanni
    Member

    might not have been bolts of the correct grade. The thing is sixty years old. My falcon had a bunch of junk holding the exhaust manifold on. The only two that didn't snap were the oldest cruddiest looking ones. And they all sat in pb blaster for a month!
     
  18. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,364

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    Good Luck... I broke 4 hope you have a good easy-out!
     
  19. Saxon
    Joined: Aug 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,157

    Saxon
    Member
    from MN

    My opinion would be to not use an ease out. Better to drill or weld a nut on it.
     
  20. kwolf
    Joined: Apr 6, 2006
    Posts: 22

    kwolf
    Member

    DON'T EVER use an easy out, unless you broke the bolt tightening it... Unless you can get to the back of the broken easy out with a punch... They're much -harder- to drill out than it is to drill out the broken bolt... I like the trick with the mig welder, washer and nut...
    Karl
     
  21. Have you considered changing your name to "Gorilla Paws"? :D
     
  22. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,279

    metalman
    Member

    I agree with you, as much as I hate drilling bolts there is nothing quite like the feeling when that easyout breaks off!
     
  23. 27? man that has to be some kind of record, .............................
     
  24. 29AVEE8
    Joined: Jun 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,384

    29AVEE8
    Member

    27 seems like a lot. I have broken lots of studs but only a few bolts. But hey that means that 21 of 'em came right out.....
     
  25. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    There was one EAB head and one 8BA head. Based on how clean it was inside, modern oil pan gasket, the .060 overbore, etc, it was probably rebuilt in the last 25 years. Some of the bolts wouldn't budge until the air pressure was cranked up, then the soldiered through. The ones that broke snapped right away. I haven't taken hundreds of engines apart, but I have torn town a couple dozen, including several Model A 4 bangers. I've never seen original Ford bolts break this easily. My bet is that some of the head bolts were replaced during the rebuild. They did have the shoulder on them like the originals, so who knows?
     
  26. coupe33
    Joined: Nov 23, 2004
    Posts: 610

    coupe33
    Member

    If there is enough stud/bolt the nut welded on works real well. If that is not an option a left fluted drill bit will work best because some times the left drilling action will break them loose
     
  27. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Some body has had a hold of this thing before you. Out in the country where most of these old motors were, people didn't have repair manuals with torque specs, let alone a torque wrench.
    Somebody put Copper Coat or maybe yellow death on the threads to stop seeping problems that plague flat heads, when they replaced a head and gaskets and tightened the living h-l out of them like the fellow above.
    Remember, the newest of these are nearly 60 years old today.
    Take it to a machine shop with a large enough mill table to set the block up on and let them locate and drill away. Hopefully you will not need a bunch of heli-coil inserts that way.
    35 years ago I worked in a machine shop and spent literally days on old motors like this, drilling and tapping studs and stitching cracks with brass and copper clad screws.
    Some of the worst can be brought back to life with time and patience.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  28. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Ever try to remove a broken off "ez-out" ?? Bigger headache, than the broken bolt !! Henry & Co was never know for high dollar hardware..... Those blankin' bolts are known for breaking. I had the machine sho do the broken bolt honors, and replaced with ARP studs on my 8BA, with Permatex.

    That IS qute a record, though.....

    4TTRUK
     
  29. countrysquire
    Joined: Oct 9, 2007
    Posts: 162

    countrysquire
    Member

    Update - Finally had a day off and removed 10 of the broken studs today. Started of by trying to weld a washer, then nut to the broken studs. No love. Then took a piece of 1/8" flat bar, drilled and tapped it and ran it down on one of the studs that had broken off about 3/16" proud of the block. Let it cool for just a bit, pulled on the bar and the bolt snapped right off at the block. Moved on to drilling, and it was like trying to drill out a broken EZ out. Anyway, drilled them out, then slowly removed the remnants with a punch. Followed this with a tap to clean out what was left. Got a little sloppy on a couple of the holes and will probably be installing a TimeSert or Helicoil in that spot and whatever else I screw up. Averaging about an hour a hole... At this point I 'm thinking that I'll take it to the machine shop for cleaning and Magnafluxing before I spend a bunch more time on it. Believe that I'll take one of the broken bolts along with a good one to a buddy to have a Brinell hardness test done.

    Bobby
     
  30. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Only thing worse than a broken ez out is a broken tap.....

    4TTRUK
     

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