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700 R4 transmission torque converter questions?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 55gasserkid, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. drptop70ss
    Joined: May 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,148

    drptop70ss
    Member
    from NY

    If I was as clueless as you I would keep my posts to a minimum, as said before "better to be thought of as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

    I suggest your hook up that 700r4 TV cable the same as the kickdown cable on a TH350, because after all they are made of the same plastic.
     
  2. 68vette
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 306

    68vette

    Ok...THANK YOU so much Special Ed....

    You give info from experts and it goes completely over their heads like the post from the guy who says to set the tv cable like a turbo 350 ...being a smart ...#$$%%....!

    They think to argue is much better than actually problem solving....thats sad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2012
  3. First off Lock-up IS necessary PERIOD! End of story and I don't care what anyone has read or heard.

    Heat is built up by the convertor, locking it up prevents that extra heat the will ruin an automatic overdrive.

    For the record, I've been dealing with and racing GM overdrives so long that I can remember the "so called" experts telling me "you can't do that". Well today there are many street/strip cars running overdrives and this past weekends Mecum's auction saw many cars running 700R4's. The same tranny I was told years ago that you can't run.

    Now I'm going to get my fuckin' popcorn 'cause I'm tired of people who have read this or heard that. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. 68vette
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 306

    68vette

    Waddayacare....do you build them for a living....just curious.
     
  5. I think I'm going 700R4 too for my car and with my current cam, I'm thinking I'd need something 2000+ on the stall speed. I've run anywhere from 3200 to 5500 over the years as a frame of reference.

    As for lock-up, I'd like to have it.
     
  6. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    The 1987 - up 700R4 (and 4L60, as it was called in the early 1990s) does not need to be locked up, it will work fine without lockup.
    This assumes correct setting of the TV cable and proper cooling.
     
  7. Man-you'd think it was a big deal to hook up the lock-up function.:confused:

    What's the big deal? Why would anyone want the converter lockup to not function in normal driving??
     
  8. nick_s
    Joined: Apr 11, 2006
    Posts: 436

    nick_s
    Member
    from Ohio

    Stock 87-92 L98 350 Camaro/Firebird/Corvette convertor or a 96+ 4.3 S10 vortec unit...it stalls a little higher. Sounds like your engine isnt much hotter than stock so no need for a high dollar big stall part.
     
  9. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,819

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    The gears aren't the part that overheat, slip and fail. You XXXXXXXXXXX.

    Have a nice week.
     
  10. So much fail in this thread I wish I owned a trans shop where some of these folks live. I'd have work every few months.
     
  11. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,256

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  12. Why not simply put in a non locking converter in your 700r4? That's what I did 3 years ago. Flawless, including a trip to Southern Cali this past June.
     
  13. 68vette
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 306

    68vette

    Fenders and chopped 51....thank you....

    To the na-sayers.....I guess I also need to tell Summit that their TCI 450HP rated 700R transmission WITHOUT LOCK UP that they sell will not make it to the nearest junk yard.

    I do know that I would NOT want any of the nay-sayers working on my 700R...
     
  14. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    Good points, but I think the question was do you have to lock up a 700R4 to prevent damage.
    Andwer: early ones, yes, later ones, no.
     
  15. 54cruzer
    Joined: Dec 6, 2006
    Posts: 248

    54cruzer
    Member
    from florida

    I have always heard a 700r WILL burn up prematurely if you don't hook up the lock up and set the cable right?
    A very easy low buck lock up for 4 prong plug 700r's(as most know), hook switched power to one of the tabs on the trans plug( you'll have to look up the diagram for the right tab) you will have to switch it on manually when you "kinda feel the need for 5th gear" but you will have to turn it off every time you slow down. It's kind of a process to drive, but it's a cheap way to lock it up, and not burn it up. I've had 4 cars wired this way, and many friends cars as well.
    There is a simple diagram to wire the trans to go into lock-up automatically(on my avatar 55 caddy I had this), you have to pull the pan and add a $10 pressure solenoid and a power wire, this works, the trans goes to 4th then locks up right, but does not unlock(I had to downshift) The kits you buy ($139 speedway etc) also involve the brake pedal in the process and unlock it when you slow. I would definitely by the kit next time.
     
  16. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 10,079

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    This one has been fun to watch. As for lockup or not if no lockup make sure you have a good tranny cooler. As for the TV cable if it is not adjusted correctly it will burn up the tranny if you run a lockup or not.
     
  17. 54cruzer
    Joined: Dec 6, 2006
    Posts: 248

    54cruzer
    Member
    from florida

    spelling above I meant "buy" the kit... Also when i say "feel the need for fifth gear" just meant when to turn it on, but you are supposed to always turn it on when driving in OD gear for extended periods. I could watch engine/trans temp drop when I forgot then locked it up on the highway.
    I think you can run it light to light in town all day long without locking it up(even run it in 3rd-D)? I did this with no lock up for years, but always new I needed lockup on the highway.
    I believe the guys that burn them up drive them on the highway without lock up for extended periods or pull a trailer. I remember the early factory AODs even told you in the maual not to trailer in OD or in hilly areas?? Anyone remember that?
     
  18. bigdav160
    Joined: May 5, 2007
    Posts: 153

    bigdav160
    Member

    +1 How about every day?

    I was a transmission man in my former life. I've worked on thousands of 700's, 4L60's and 4L60e's.
    I think if the young man (above) would look at the TCI Streetfighter webpage it'll say the 700R4 comes with an wiring harness for the lockup converter. I imagine the Summit text is a typo.

    I've used the hydraulic lockup kits and they work fine.
     
  19. My post was not about what I read or what I heard. Not hear say. It is what I am doing day in and day out and I tow with my cars a lot with 700s and no lock up for thousands and thousands of miles and through mountains. This is not arguable. Tonight, I will tow another car with my non lock up 700 through the mountains for 250 miles.
    I am not advocating everyone not to use their lock up, just saying I do not at this time and it works just fine without it. fact

    [​IMG]

    As i said, I have a deep pan and a gauge. The 700 does not get hot. Of course, I do not use the OD while climbing but, I will use 4th at times on leve ground. It depends on what the 455 in front of it 'likes' based on my vacumn gauge.
     
  20. 68vette
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 306

    68vette

    Mine is a 92 model out of a camaro....

    My ol mechanic, who has a super reputation in this town, told me a little story here not to long ago when we were discussing my heads on my 283. He told me when he was working at chevy as the lead mechanic, he saw a guy put the rubber o ring on the valve stem and assemble the valve in the head....

    Arthur said...."you are going to cut the seal doing it that way"

    The guy said...." I have been doing it this way all my life".

    Arthurs response...." Well, you have been doing it WRONG all your life!!!!!"
     
  21. 54cruzer
    Joined: Dec 6, 2006
    Posts: 248

    54cruzer
    Member
    from florida

    I love it!.....with picture to prove it.....nice "truck"
     
  22. Bib Overalls
    Joined: Aug 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,071

    Bib Overalls
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A TH-200-4R makes more sense.

    TH-350 and the TH-200-4R have the same length and output spline count. Rear mount has to be moved but drive shaft modification is not required. When compared to the TH-700-R4 the TH-200-4R has better gear ratios and takes fewer HP to spin.
     
  23. American Metrics
    Joined: Oct 1, 2009
    Posts: 39

    American Metrics
    Member

    The information in this post swings from far Left to far Right. I just finished reading the entire post and still don't know what the right answer is<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=Picture_x0020_1 style="VISIBILITY: visible; WIDTH: 12pt; HEIGHT: 12pt; mso-wrap-style: square" alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75" o:spid="_x0000_i1025"><v:imagedata src="file:///D:\DOCUME~1\BRETT~1.TAN\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif" o:title="0"></v:imagedata></v:shape> I run a 700R4 in my 29 with a Painless lock up kit. I pulled my trans yesterday to have some issues addressed and was talking to my builder about torque converters. He recommended a lock up converter to help it run a little cooler. He didn’t say it was necessary but would help the trans last longer. I understand what the Painless kit does but am unsure what the lock up torque converter does. Anyone have experience with the lock up converter?<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
     
  24. 1949 caddyman
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 225

    1949 caddyman
    Member
    from arizona

    The lock up feature keeps the converter from slipping. A non lock up converter slips 2-300 rpm at light throttle. There are clutches in the converter that engage to lock it up.
     
  25. American Metrics
    Joined: Oct 1, 2009
    Posts: 39

    American Metrics
    Member


    Does that slip occure all of the time or only at a light throttle. My car is only 1800#'s gets driven a lot. I would say I use light throttle 90% of the time. I'm trying to get my car ready for some long road trips. I assume heat occurs with torque converter slip.
     
  26. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,849

    sunbeam
    Member

    I don't get it a mustang 2 front end thread was closed but a 700r4 one is OK.
     
  27. American Metrics
    Joined: Oct 1, 2009
    Posts: 39

    American Metrics
    Member

    Mid 80's not traditional enough for you:D
     
  28. 1949 caddyman
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 225

    1949 caddyman
    Member
    from arizona

    T-5 manual transmissions and air bag suspensions also were also not around in the traditional times.
     
  29. 1949 caddyman
    Joined: Jun 30, 2010
    Posts: 225

    1949 caddyman
    Member
    from arizona

    You get the 2-300 rpm slip under lite throttle, a lock up removes that slip. Under harder throttle it will slip up to the stall speed of the converter. Yes, heat is produced with the slip.
     
  30. 68vette
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 306

    68vette

    Lets not forget that the auto trans from the late 60's to the early 80's did not have lock up converters....a turbo 400 was one of the toughest long lasting trans out there....a friend of mine has two cars with 427 side oilers and c6's....I have been riding in those vehicles for years...no trans problems and I know for a fact there was some hard pressure needs put on those trans.

    Also, it depends where you live as to the needs of a trans....I live right in the middle of the highest mountains east of the Mississippi....we cannot go 1/2 mile without hitting a hill...

    I have a vehicle with a lock up...it is a 8 year old truck with 4.86 gears and a 4 cyl....overdrive is 3.40....that being said...it works pretty good around here but does go in 3rd gear on the interstates.

    The rear end in my 49 chevy will be 3.42...overdrive will be 2.39....I cannot afford to lose another 2-300 rpm and use overdrive in the city where most of my driving is done....that is my thinking as to why I a lock up is not needed....and the simplicity of not having to deal with the lock up going in and out constantly around town here will be eliminated.

    If I lived in a place that was flat like my sisters in Ohio and in a country setting with few redlights....then maybe a lock up would be more desirable....or maybe a 4.11 gear might make a difference here.

    My ol mechanic has a 88 dodge pu and he had the torque converter taken out and the clutches removed...that was about 10 years ago....still runs fine....and you take the testimonial posts here that say its okay to run the later 700R's without the lock up...and my trans guy who has built many many trans and has an excellent reputation for building auto trans saying it would be good as he has lots out there in street rods without problems....

    All considered....no lock up needed....283, 700R, 3.42 rear, strong high torque cam that was in my 51.....I am still betting 30mpg based on my 51 ford with 305, non lock up turbo 350, 2.79 rear getting 25.4 mpg on the interstate.
     

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