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64 blueflame into a 51 chev??

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Morgan91, Jan 13, 2011.

  1. Morgan91
    Joined: Sep 12, 2010
    Posts: 560

    Morgan91
    Member
    from Australia

    G'day from Australia.

    iv got a 51 chev sedan

    just wondering if my engine mounts off my 1951 "splash feed" oil system 216, will bolt to the front of a 64 chev blue flame motor? because the 64 has the motor mounts on the side like a SBC and the 51's are up the front like under the timing case.

    the reason for the swap is for reliability as the chev is my everyday driver and im not a huge fan of the whole non pressurized oil system.

    im aware that the 54 chev motors and some of the 53 ones have the pressurized system but i can get a 64 impala motor pretty easily and cheap.

    cheers morgan.
     
  2. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    If your '64 motor is the same as the '64 motor here, the mount plate will not fit. You will also have bell housing issues if you are using the stock transmission. The 216 housing will not bolt to the '64 engine.

    '61 was the last 235. Any 235 or 261 is a direct bolt in, any of the GMC 228-302 engines will bolt in as far as the rear of the engine, you have to move the front mount holes & radiator ahead about 1-1/2 inches.
     
  3. Morgan91
    Joined: Sep 12, 2010
    Posts: 560

    Morgan91
    Member
    from Australia

    thanks for the help mate.

    so just to clear it up anything before 61 will have the holes in the front of the block to bolt onto my mount plate off the 51?

    i was planning on using the trans out of the 64. because i was planning on making it an open drive shaft and then i was just going to use a holden (aussie GM) diff.

    but i think il wait untill i do a full rebuild of the car before i swap the motor, i cant have this car off the road for to long to do stuff to it because its my daily driver.
     
  4. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    This is all based on the car having the same parts as a US car.

    '61 and earlier full size car engines will work. They SHOULD have the holes. Check for them before you disable your car. Swapping the plate means pulling the cam. Not a quick and easy thing. If I was doing it I'd use the side mount kits to avoid pulling the engine all apart.

    Side mount kits are available. Check Tom Langdons site, also Chassisengineeringinc, maybe some of the H.A.M.B Alliance vendors. I've seen bolt-on & weld-on (frame side). Making them is not difficult. A set of mounts could be made in less time than it takes to change the plate.
     

  5. Morgan91
    Joined: Sep 12, 2010
    Posts: 560

    Morgan91
    Member
    from Australia

    Cool. Thanks for the info mate. I think il look into making some mounts.
     
  6. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,309

    R Pope
    Member

    A minor correction, the 235 was last built in '62.
    A 230 with trans and open drive will work, but a SBC is just as easy a swap. If you already have the six, though, go for it.
    A 235 will have the mount plate already, some just need holes drilled for the mount bolts. If the plate doesn't have the extended flat flange for the mount, you can weld a piece of flat steel on for a mount. I have done that with the engine hanging from a chain! Just take the timing cover off first to get at the plate easier. Good time to inspect the fiber timing gear, they have a habit of stripping and then the crankshaft can hit the cam lobes, BOOM! Bye bye stovebolt.
    If the gear is worn, there is an aluminum replacement gear available. You have to pull the cam to change gears, so that's the time to replace the mount plate too.
     
  7. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,309

    R Pope
    Member

    Maybe different down under, but a Blue Flame is a stovebolt. Did they keep the older engines in production down there longer, or just keep the name?
     
  8. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    All true, but, To avoid a long dissertation involving models, (I'm dealing with 22 inches of snow in the yard), I put it the way I did. I forgot about the plate being there. While they will work, they are not constructed the way the others are. They are not as strong.

    From Wikipedia: (and also true)

    Chevrolet's third-generation inline-6 was introduced in 1962 (two years after rival Chrysler introduced its Slant Six) and produced through 1988. Although the exterior dimensions were similar to the previous Stovebolts, this generation was lighter and had a different cast-in bell housing pattern. Manual transmission bellhousings, automatics, and starter motors became interchangeable with both small block and large block Chevrolet V8s. The first usage was in the newly-introduced 1962 Chevy II; the following year, Chevrolet passenger cars adopted it ...
     
  9. Morgan91
    Joined: Sep 12, 2010
    Posts: 560

    Morgan91
    Member
    from Australia



    Isn't a stove bolt a flat head 6?

    My motor looks almost the same at the 230 except the rocker cover has two bolts in the middle rather then 4 bolts around the out side.
     
  10. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,818

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    No, chevy used a 6 cylinder OHV from like 1937 up with a few changes, but mostly the same.
    inliners.org is a wealth of knowledge for you.
     
  11. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 8,116

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    No. The Chevy inline six was always an overhead-valve engine...in fact, Chevy and Buick had overhead engines when most every other make had flatheads.

    Pope is right. The 235 engine was produced through 1962, regardless as to whether the newer version of the six was introduced that same year.
     
  12. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 8,116

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    You beat me to it, sled. BTW...first year for Chevy six was 1929.
     
  13. DougHH
    Joined: Jun 24, 2009
    Posts: 273

    DougHH
    Member

    Adapt the mounts and use the 64 w/ your choice of trans... one of the biggest limitations of the Blue flames in aus is transmission. Iron glides suck and manuals for the 235 arent plentiful, you can have someone adapt a borg warner bhut it depends how far you want to go with your daily? The fact that you can bolt any S/B pattern trans up to this one apparently is a BIG selling point for me

    speak with an engineer and get the specs on engine mount adapting for rego in your state.. if you can / know someone who can weld then you'll probably find it easier and cheaper to do it that way. Just remember do it when your rego is up because you're going to need a whole new registration.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2011
  14. Morgan91
    Joined: Sep 12, 2010
    Posts: 560

    Morgan91
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks dude. In Victoria it's a bit easier to change a motor over, all we need I an engineers cert and if the car is already regoed it doesn't cost to register a different motor. Apart from the cost of the engineer.

    This is my 216

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    the pictures are a bit dodgey but you get the idea.

    Also for the Aussies out there. How do you recon I'd go with a 4 speed Holden box?

    The original plan was to use an ht Holden front end to get rid of the king pin setup ad then I was thinking do up a 186 red for it, because there cheap, easy to do up, they look alright and it would be super reliable.
     
  15. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,291

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    Since Ford used the Y block in South America years after they quit building them up here did GM use the stovebolt longer down under then they did up here.
     
  16. trivia:
    Yea, but what was the first year of the Chevrolet V8 ???????

    I seem to recall that there was a pump and external filter kit made
    by and aftermarket company for the 216??? anybody remember? 50's
     
  17. hotdamn
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 2,233

    hotdamn
    Member

    1955 was it not?
     
  18. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,291

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    It was around 1916 or 17 and was short lived.
     
  19. Nads
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 11,726

    Nads
    Member
    from Hypocrisy

    Also 55 thru 57 235s had only front side engine mounts, the engine mounts have to be made, they don't just bolt into earlier cars, I found out the hard way.
     

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