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Hot Rods '63 Galaxy brakes qood enough?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by oj, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Bearcat_V8
    Joined: Sep 21, 2011
    Posts: 339

    Bearcat_V8
    Member
    from Dexter, MI

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  2. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,843

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I bid on one of the arcing machines years ago and gave up at $300ish, a friend that used one said 'can you say mesothielioma?' when I asked him about one.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  3. Bearcat_V8
    Joined: Sep 21, 2011
    Posts: 339

    Bearcat_V8
    Member
    from Dexter, MI

    OJ, I have seen those machines for sale on CL for a couple-three hundred bucks. I have been tempted but who wants one of them in their home shop, and who wants to do this for other people? Not me.
     
  4. What's in modern brake shoes that if you at least wear a dust mask working the machine, is going to get in you and cause problems? That isn't going to be laying in the bottom of the drums from the old set when you pull it off?
     
  5. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,843

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    My shop is dirty enough, I'd like to find somebody with one a couple blocks away and let his shop get dirty. I don't think thats going t happen.
     
  6. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,349

    Boneyard51
    Member

    If you buy new shoes and new drums, they will most likely fit real good without re- arching.
    Back in the day, when you had your brake drums “ turned” it made the drums larger. You could buy oversized shoes and have them fitted to the larger drums. Depending on how much was cut from the drums. Sometimes you could re arch the standard shoes.
    I never remember re arching new shoes, not saying they fit perfectly, but usually pretty good, and would work without much “wearing in”.

    Bones
     
  7. Yup, I'm due for a chest cat scan, wonder how much asbestos I sucked up while arcing shoes. We used to dampen a clean shop rag and hold it with one hand over our nose and mouth while we arced shoes...
     
  8. I break the leading and trailing edges of the shoes with a wood rasp so they break in faster. Works pretty well.
     
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  9. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,349

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Bob, I used to do that also. If the drums were not to be turned, I would also break the “ corners” ( edges) of the brake shoe linings with a bench grinder to fit the rounded pattern of the old shoes. Can you spell mesosemaloia? ( obviously I can’t) lol.
    Also when I purchased the rebuilt shoes, I would alway check the alignment of the lining in regards to the shoe. Saw a lot the shoes/linings that were real crooked. Parts guys didn’t like me, as sometimes it would take several boxes of shoes to get a set I was comfortable with.


    Bones
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  10. wood remover
    Joined: Dec 23, 2012
    Posts: 646

    wood remover
    Member

    Glue a piece of course emery cloth to the inside of the drum , run the shoe around the drum . Peel the emery cloth off and clean glue with brake cleaner . Ready to go !!!
     
  11. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 827

    deucemac
    Member

    We stopped arcing shoes long ago when the government got in on the act. The maximum oversize the drum could be turned was . 060. The shoes were prearced at .020. Shoe flex was gauges to be max of .020, and a .020 mismatch between drum was allowed. Did thousands of them with those parameters over the years and if the brakes were not just plain abused, there was good contact on every inspection.
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  12. I look at that too, got lucky with my '59 Ford rear shoes from Rock Auto. I've seen the center web bent on a few too. The cores get thrown in a 55 gallon drum and the rebuilder would stop by and pick them up. They used to do a fair trade in "rebuilt" drums and rotors, which was a real bust, most were crap but looked nice.

    I'll try breaking the long edges too, good tip... not with a grinder. We all have our tricks for making drum brakes work better. The wood rasp thing was shown to me by an old timer, the first "pre-arced" shoes were not so great, good thing front discs were just becoming popular by 1977.
     
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  13. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,843

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm getting it apart and something that looks odd is that it is plumbed in 3/16ths line. Can anybody confirm if this is correct? I know Ford is weird about this, I've seen them run 3/16ths to the rear and then 1/4 across the rear end itself.
    Being big drum brakes and all I would expect to see 1/4" lines all thru the car.
     
  14. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,440

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    3/16, That's correct or at least all I have seen on the Fords from that era I have owned.
    The 65 F100 is all 3/16 as was my 62 Galaxie, as is my 64 Fairlane, 50 F1 and my 50 Coupe I used to own.
     
    sidevalve8ba likes this.
  15. I've had plenty of early 60's Galaxies and all of them were 3/16 brake lines.
     
  16. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,233

    jimmy six
    Member

    oj..... If you go with discs Drop-n-stop in Ca. specializes in 49-64 Fords and will gladly talk to any potential customers. He's been in the business just shy of 20 yrs... Good luck.
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  17. Not sure if it is correct for that car or not but highly doubt it is causing a problem, the size of the braking surface has no bearing on how much fluid movement there is, that is determined by master and wheel cylinder size. there is usually less than a teaspoon or 5ml of fluid that actually moves when the brakes are depressed. Remember because fluid is non compressible it acts like a solid and doesn't need much movement to apply force.
     
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  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,843

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Agree, I was questioning everything at that point. The 3/16ths is proper for the Galaxie btw. Turns out there were a number of problems from wrong size wheel cylinders, leakage to a mysterious 'goo' that almost looks like mud all thru the system and inside the wheel cylinders. Very odd really, the entire system isn't all that old.
    Now I've got to find some new wheel cylinders, 15/16ths rear & 1 3/32 front, left & right on each. The MC is trashed so I'll go back with a dual bowl.
     
    lothiandon1940 and Boneyard51 like this.
  19. At that point I would say your on the right track, make sure everything is clean, hard lines etc. and reassemble with the proper parts and it should be good. Drum brakes stop well when they work however they require more work than discs, adjusting and such. As Bob said earlier however, they are prone to brake fade.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  20. F.O.G
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 255

    F.O.G
    Member
    from Pacific,Mo

    Power brakes do nothing for stopping distance, you just don't have to push as hard not to stop.
    Surprised no one has mentioned sintered metallic brake linings, little hard push required when
    first used but really do resist fade.
     
    Elcohaulic likes this.
  21. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,349

    Boneyard51
    Member

    I would replace all the lines and hoses also. Since your going to replace the master cylinder with a dual cylinder you will be doing some repulumbing. I would replace it all, as it may be 50 plus years old. May look good, but could be rusting from the inside with all that goo you are talking about. Be safe, just my .02.


    Bones
     
    oj likes this.
  22. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,843

    oj
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    019 (2).JPG 004.JPG 011.JPG 014.JPG Its all back together and stops really well, it'll lock up all 4 wheels. I'm test driving it now and I can see power assist because the car drives so well that you can loose the fact its drum brakes, the owner has yet to drive it.
    Here's a few pics of the goo inside the wheel cylinders, master cylinder has the same stuff. We did the backing plates in a satin silver, the original satin black hid all the crud and you really couldn't see the brakes. The new dual bowl master cylinder is a Ford unit from when they were required to split the circuit.
     
  23. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 207

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Like an idiot I swapped my 8 lugs on my 64 Pontiac for a disc set up because I couldn't get it to stop straight and thought it was the drum brakes. Turned out to be the alignment and sway bar end links tighten too tight.
    After working on my brothers 66 Bonneville with 8 lugs and then driving it, I became sick to my stomach! The car stopped on the dime, straight as an arrow, much faster and smoother then my 64 with the disc/drum set up. Pontiac used 11x2.5 shoes in the front with 11x2 in the back.

    I always wanted to try an adjustable proportion valve and a hydroboost on a drum brake set up..

    No way would I give up on a whopping 11"x3" set up!
    -Change the linings to metallic then drive it. It takes a couple thousand miles before they wear in..
    -Make sure the pedal is in the manual brake hole and/or try making the pedal longer, closer to the floor for a 7:1 ratio..
    -Adjust the anchor pins.
    -I prefer no self adjusters and making adjustments manually. That always worked out better for me, especially if the car had a standard rear end, jack the car up run the rear wheels and see which side is spinning after stopping and starting a few times. Tighten the side that's spinning until both are spinning equally.
    I recently changed my off topic 69 el Camino to manual adjusters in the rear. The car always had this weird drift to the right. I used 1960 Impala star wheels. 6 clicks down from stop and it stops perfectly straight.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  24. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 207

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    That set up is crying for an adjustable rear proportion valve! lol Very nice job and outcome!!!
     
  25. O.J.,
    What is the original application for that dual master cylinder? It seems to be doing a super job in your use.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  26. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,206

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    A CarLife road test of a 1965 427 Galaxie thought the HD manual brakes were pretty good, claiming to have made three max effort stops from 80 mph before fade set in. But. also wishing for the T-birds disks
    http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/memb...65-02_CL_Ford_Galaxie_500_XL_427_Test_1-5.pdf
     
    oj likes this.

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