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Projects 63 Falcon Build Thread - Stockcar for the Street

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by nash510, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    Here is what I did on my '64 Galaxie:

    Rear end wrap is controlled by a pull bar with a progressive rate spring. The instant center is the same as the front eye of the leaf spring:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  2. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Thanks Drive Em. You had posted these pictures somewhere else a while ago and as I was looking at options, I was trying without success to find them. I really like the set up. If my idea doesn't work I may go this route as I think it will work with the specific clearances on my car. There is only one pull bar / only on one side of the diff, right?
     
  3. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    Correct, only one pull bar on the right side of the diff, as close to center as will allow. This setup really works slick.
     
  4. Winfield
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 59

    Winfield
    Member

    No need for slapper bars or caltracs, for a quick and easy repair try what Maier Racing uses on their Mustangs. They rebuild the leaf springs and add a couple of extra leafs to just the front. For a pic go to Maier Racing.
     
  5. 66tintop
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 450

    66tintop
    Member
    from Canada

    Hi Nash , you have some tough luck, you could also try using a quarter eliptect leaf spring(250lbs rate apx) with a load bolt on the spring eye end ,add the 3rd upper link and a panhard bar and you will be able to really stand on the go pedal ! Pm me if you need some specs. Thanks TINTOP
     
  6. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    These look like they would do the trick. I suspect they are 2.5 inches wide rather then the 2 inchers I have (another reason I am having this problem) but I could probably make them work with some modifications to the mounting points.
     
  7. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Hey TinTop. Yeah, I think I'm going to need a visual on this one. I am assuming the quarter ellipticals would act like control arms? I am trying to come up with something that I could build with the scrap I have laying around with no modifications to my axle or chassis. Here is what It looks like so far. I have no idea if it will work but with no investment it's worth a shot.

    The end on the left side of the photo would use the same mounting as the front leaf spring eye. The bar would ride on top of the front of the spring. The bolt on the lower right side of the photo would ride under the spring and would contact the spring where it is four leafs thick. The bolt at the top can be used to adjust pre-load. IN THEORY, when the axle wants to wrap the front of the spring would contact the bottom of the bar effectively stiffening the spring at that point. I am hoping any bind will not be significant. I do anticipate some rattle which I will deal with later if this whole thing works. So what do you think? Am I in for disappointment?
     

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  8. 66tintop
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 450

    66tintop
    Member
    from Canada

    I'm not sure about you are going to try, but it is worth a try, you are right about my idea of quarter lips springs, they will act as control arms as well as springs , works very well, all you have to do is make a load bolt for ride height , I will draw you a drawing and email tomorrow , as I am not really tech savvy enough to post very much on here, we have used this set up in oval track racing before and it works as good as coil springs and 3 link. Just remember there is no such thing as a car with to much power , just cars that can't handle it. Do you have a pinion snubber on your car now ?
     
  9. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,523

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    BB I did a rough sketch of what you have now and since you have the sliding link in the ladder bars they are no longer ladder bars in function but act as the lower link in a four link set up with the front half of the leaf springs being the upper links..Not dissing, it will probably work very well, give you launch bite and street flex...Cal tracs work slick and optimum is getting their 2-1/2 leaf spring to go with them..That said I am not sure in how they work for twistys [road race]..In my 72' Comet I have factory HD springs, factory HD shocks which are factory stagger mounted and have no issues at all; if I was going to add it would be an upper link type like listed for the early stangs...Most important to me is getting any mountings as close to the springs [far apart] as possible..In my 51' I built four bar with a shackle link from rear axle to leaf spring, figured it would be slick and it was as long as driving around; launches were wheel hop city..Once I angled the top bars down [couple holes up at rear, couple down at front] which basically turned the four bar into equal length four link with enough flex to handle normal suspension movement [doing some twistys] on the street but have great launch bite.....
     

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  10. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    That would be great. That's a "no" on the pinion snubber. I need to add one regardless but I'll have to add a cross member to the frame first so I have something to mount it to.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  11. 66tintop
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 450

    66tintop
    Member
    from Canada

    Ok, try the pinion snubber first , try and make it adjustable like the Chrysler muscle car had,if you can get the crossmember in there, you can also put a mount for 3rd upper link, only has to be 12-13 inches long , has to mounted below top of rear end at static ride, if you want to pm me your phone number and we bench race over your dilemma , might be creative !
     
  12. 66tintop
    Joined: Nov 7, 2012
    Posts: 450

    66tintop
    Member
    from Canada

    Hey Nash,I just went back and looked at your pics of your rear clip,you have a crossmember ahead of the rear end, u could put a mount on it, then mount an upper link bracket on top of rear end housing, then u don't need the pinion snubber at all, u would be halfway there, cut them leaf springs in half, and put a panhard bar on it , then u could stand on that loud pedal ! Check Howe racing out for 3rd link parts
     
  13. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Just sent you a PM
     
  14. Lance Carbuncle
    Joined: Oct 8, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Lance Carbuncle
    Member
    from San Diego

    If you are willing to cut into your rear floorpan, you could try running a single link from the top of the housing forward, creating a bar more or less parallel to your leaf spring so that it has minimal effect on pinion angle through travel. I don't know if you are using a panhard or watts link to keep things centered, or are just relying on the leaf's. I raced a factory backed Nissan Truck originally built for Spencer Lowe in the SCORE series and it had two leaf's mounted under the axle and a single upper rod that went from the top of the diff forward and it worked very well in a car that had about 14" of wheel travel that got used all day long at race speeds. Think of it as a three link using the leaf's as your lower links and the rod as the upper. You could change the upper rod to a wishbone to control lateral axle movement..... Disadvantage is you are raising the roll center of the car.... and careful setup needs to be made to avoid binding as the leaf's flatten out, which will effectively change the pinion angle, though in a controlled manner..

    Allen
     
  15. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Hey Allen,

    Hope you had a great holiday. Early on I thought about what you suggested and besides wanting to try a solution that would not require modification of axle, frame or floorpan, I wasn't sure it would adequately solve my problem. Since the main cause of my axle wrap is weakness in at the front of the leaf springs, I could see where a top link would hold the top of the axle from moving aft but the weakness in the springs would not keep the bottom of the axle from moving forward. But who knows, it may work good enough to minimize the wrap. If what I am working on doesn't do the trick, believe me all the suggestions you and others have kindly provided are back on the table. How's your project progressing? Looking forward to seeing it in person.
     
  16. Lance Carbuncle
    Joined: Oct 8, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Lance Carbuncle
    Member
    from San Diego

    Hi Tom,

    Yeah, if you don't want to cut the floors, a five leaf or 4 1/2 leaf reverse eye spring should really cut down the wrap up..... and minimize you having to raise the mounting point on the front shackle quite a bit to get the ride height back to where you are at now

    [​IMG]

    On a side note, the Holiday has been hectic but I did manage to sneak down to Ocotillo and put a hundred miles on the RZR as well as do some testing in a Class 1 Jimco Racecar so I got my batteries charged. The Falcon is coming along and just about torn down to the chassis and ready for media blasting. The guys at Agent 47 have had limited holiday hours so I hope to start making progress in January.

    I did start a build thread at the PT forum (hope it is ok to post a link) snce I am not sure if the car would be appropriate for the theme over here.

    http://www.pro-touring.com/threads/103815-Agent-47-Falcon-Sprint-Build

    Cheers, Allen
     
  17. Lance Carbuncle
    Joined: Oct 8, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Lance Carbuncle
    Member
    from San Diego

    Remember though, that if you are running a stock length "63 Spring, that it is a few inches shorter than a 64/65 Falcon sedan/hardtop spring (which IS the same as a '64-66 Mustang).

    On my old 63 Road Race car, I moved the real shackle hole in the frame back so I could run the Mustang springs because there are a lot more choices and it is an easy do.
     
  18. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Thanks Allen. The beefier Mustang springs I'm sure would help. I won't go into my whole decision process to stick with the 63 springs but that choice caused multiple issues with the build, not the least of which is the axle wrap.
     
  19. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,542

    AHotRod
    Member

    Nash .... I had Detroit Eaton Spring http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/ build me custom springs for my Chevy II Wagon. They made me a spring similar to the old Chrysler Hemi Super Stock spring, but with a nice spring rate for street driving.
    This would save you allot of hassle and fabrication.
     
  20. Racerguy
    Joined: Aug 25, 2013
    Posts: 3

    Racerguy
    Member

    nash510 I see that you have multiple mounting holes for the front of the springs.
    How about if you took an extra main leaf and cut if off just behind the center bolt and add it on top of the leafs you have now.
    You could bolt the new second "main" leaf into one of the top holes in your front spring hanger and have it in the spring pack like your other leaves are now with the center bolt holding it in.
    You would have 2 main leaves in the front of your spring pack and no extras in the back so it should still ride okay.
    With the bushing in the front of both leaves you shouldn't have any binding and with the 2 main leaves bolted to the front spring hanger at different heights that should help control wrap.
    I'm sleepy and that's just me thinking out loud though ;)
     
  21. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,722

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    The biggest problem with the factory '63 springs IS the main leaf. Because of the narrow 2" width, and the thin profile of the stock springs, it allows the spring wrap you're getting. You might consider taking the stock spring set to a local spring shop and have a new main leaf made up from heavier material. That would probably the least amount of work, and give enough difference to eliminate much of the spring wrap issues.
     
  22. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Thanks Allen, Ed, BB, AHotRod, Racerguy and anyone else I may have forgotten for all your suggestions. It proves there is more than one way to skin a cat. That's one of the things I love about this forum.

    I finished the traction bars I was working on and was able to take the car out for a drive. I have to say it turned out better than I expected. They solved the axle wrap problem and the icing on the cake is they don't rattle. As you can probably guess by the pictures they limit the flex in the front part of the spring but the ride is not that much stiffer than before. I think most of my suspension travel was happening near the front of the springs and now it appears to be more evenly spread. If need be I can adjust the pre-load on the bars.

    I put tape on the part of the drive shaft that was rubbing just to see the problem was still there. The photo below is after my drive and was a welcome sight. I also noticed while I was under the car that I had forgotten to weld one of the exhaust seams at the resonator inlet so I took care of that at the same time.

    Thanks again everyone
     

    Attached Files:

  23. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,542

    AHotRod
    Member

    Well done Nash!
     
  24. Liam-B
    Joined: Apr 6, 2012
    Posts: 152

    Liam-B
    Member
    from Melbourne

    Nice work around! Was that a custom made drive shaft or is it from a Ford of some sort?
     
  25. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

    Thanks Liam. Driveshaft Specialist of Texas made the driveshaft for me. Really good folks to work with.
     
  26. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 5,722

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Looks like a great fix!
     
  27. nash510
    Joined: Mar 2, 2008
    Posts: 140

    nash510
    Member
    from Vista, CA

  28. 2club
    Joined: Feb 2, 2011
    Posts: 26

    2club
    Member
    from California

    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  29. Randy Moore
    Joined: Aug 22, 2018
    Posts: 1

    Randy Moore

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