The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by younglove, Aug 3, 2018.
Stickers on the caps show their age but all screws are great and these caps clean.
They look so good the car deserves more than a thumbnail.
Ready to receive the goods…
Cheers mate, is probably the best expression for this one! It goes out to ”mgtstumpy” for posting the ole barn find ‘57 with this photo.
Because I was struggling to see where a generator or alternator would fit!!!
I didn’t understand that a guy had to be within a 1/4” of the air cleaners and create two new brackets to mount up. Not a word of that in the instructions, I’ve realized they’re simply a loose guide.
The skeletons always look so small!
And would you look at that pulley!!!
What kind of restraints do you have to run with this blower?
Was looking at the classified section of a 63? hot rod mag this morning. Guy was selling a complete Latham set up for a Vette including modified steering arms and engine mounts.
Once again, this helped me out a lot...so here's the info for folk on down the line!
This Latham came with four Carter YH 3172SA carbs(which are rare nowadays it seems).
Final plumbing is nearly complete and one of my big curiosities was resolved today thanks to Jon at http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/ whom as many of you know is "carbking" here on HAMB.
Big question was, what are these drain tubes for and do I have to have these dams in my carb throats?
Turns out Carter planned ahead for these carbs to have a marine application, so a threaded boss is in the bottom of the throat so a fitting can begin the plumbing up to a vacuum port. Thought being, when a boat is being tossed about/sloshing fuel, it'll go into the drain tube plumbing and once started again it'll be sucked up into the system. So, more work is ahead with some 1/4" tubing but the dams can carefully come out and the hazard should be gone(they already leaked onto my left motor mount during some test priming, damnit).
Another great insight is the metal throttle bodies and metal linkage on these Carters have been verified as being yellow or white plating in either zinc or cadmium. Seems they simply had the plating company across the street run their parts in whatever plating process was going on for the day or week...pretty cool.
Photo shows the correct port that Jon spoke of for routing the drip tubes. I had to use an impact screw driver to remove 3 or 4 old plugs.
Chad - enjoyed our conversation yesterday. The link below to our website reinforces your post on coloration/plating:
Thanks, I look forward to reading it!
Kind of humorous…I guess?
Latham instructions—“With the Corvette it will be necessary to grind away a small amount of hood reinforcing strip at three places where it strikes two air cleaners and the compressor. This will not damage nor weaken the hood.”
Let’s see now, the “reinforcing strip” is .75” tall and this photo tells me 1.25” is needed minimum, 2” is more realistic.
Explains why the ‘57 has a hood bulge.
Interesting how the ‘57 in the Super Chevy article speaks of a “flat hood”, no bulges but you can see nearly the entire width of the hoods reinforcing strip is ground away.
Nice old ruler with useful markings not the latest METRIC markings on one side.
So now what is your plan?
Reckon I'll let it ride for now but after some run time sorting out is complete and December/January weather sets in, I'm leaning towards ditching my newly plumbed carb. lines, rotating the 90* fittings down and running lines from there, perhaps just black fuel line. Clear just doesn't last as far as I know.
Running the lines underneath the carbs allows me to create a compact teardrop style hood bulge much like the '57. On top looking clean and fancy would just make the bulge bigger.
Super close now!
Waiting for original style Delco battery and a couple tower clamps.
Latham suggested pushing the expansion tank towards the firewall and mounting it to the steering column. Didn’t like that idea, so made a bracket and tucked it in/atop the steering box.
Carbs will get restored this winter.
I've got quite a bit of info on the Latham and was going to use it on my 60 Vette but acquired a Latham Manufacturing Intake for an FE so that's the final application. Not sure which car it will be on. I do have 6 of the YH carbs 2 of which are off a Y-Block Marine manifold. I'll have to check the differences. Planning on a 6 carb setup with 3 on each side.
Which Intake manifold are you using on the SBC? My understanding it was intended to have an early FI intake with an adapter plate.
I'll be following your thread.
BTW I do get to Parker Colorado a couple of times a year driving into Grand Junction in I 70 then down C-470.
Yes, FI intake was used and what's on this setup w/ the Latham adapter plate.
Cleaned up real good.
Now that's a pisser!!!
You saw what the engine looked like...well this little plug is weeping oil, so now it looks like this.
Seriously guys, if there's a known 5% chance that this plug will leak after being reinstalled(which is what I've learned from three old timers now). First off why remove this heat seated factory plug anyways! Secondly why not add a second galley/freeze plug with some epoxy simply as a secondary precaution? Which is now what I get to do.
I'd love to learn more from anyone reading out there, thanks!
Here’s what I learned and some opinions and maybe it will help another one day.
1. If this upper plug is a flat plug and doesn’t look disturbed and wasn’t leaking…LEAVE IT ALONE! Machine shops think the customer wants every plug changed and think they should change every plug, which is nonsense. This plug was set when the block was hot originally, basically they never leak until messed with by an engine builder.
And when that builder leaves you to fend for yourself…
2. My fix was a 17/32” cup style galley/expansion plug. Dorman part #555-007
And some 2 part epoxy.
It’s good to go based on a drill based oil priming and will just hope it stays that way.
I've been away trying to sort out various items...the biggest one being running hot at an idle. I've done the checks that I'm aware of but they haven't changed anything yet. Rebuilding carbs now, so new ideas will need to wait a bit but I'm ready to try any new insights! Please help if possible?
It runs fine whilst driving but any stop and go and it's immediately climbing and wants to overheat. Classic overheating at an idle challenge!
Here's my details...
~Less than 50 miles on the build, hood's been/is off, 45-55 degrees outside
~'62 327 340HP which is now .040 over with 9.5 to 1(due to the Latham specs), L79 cam, long tube headers
~DeWitts new aluminum radiator
~Stock 5 blade fan
~Stock style fan clutch which I've done the "counter clockwise spring trick to" and I've checked it's rotation, it doesn't even spin a full turn at a warm shutoff. So I know it's locking up
~Stock upper and lower fan shrouds. I've altered the upper shroud into a three piece unit(you can see the two left bolts in the thermostat photo). It was physically impossible to remove the idler spring with the shroud installed and you can't adjust the supercharger without relieving idler tension(this is probably why the Latham instructions said, "do not install the shroud and there would be no overheating problems")
~Fan blades are 3/8" inside the shroud vs. stock due to the spacer needed to clear the idler pulley bolts. So the half in/half out guideline is off(in)by 3/8"
~Timing is 12* and no vacuum advance w/ the '63 Mallory distributor
~Thermostat's have been, 180*, then an empty housing and now 160*
~Inline thermostat housing on upper radiator hose(I've questioned this location/angle since I came up with it but since it's only an idle problem it shouldn't matter...correct?)
~There's currently a 17 5/8" opening in the shroud, so a 18" 7 blade A/C car blade won't work
~During the build I installed the 3 hi horse rubber strips around the front of the radiator
~Due to the Latham and per their instructions, I ran the 5/8" heater hose from the expansion tank to a "T" into the 5/8" heater hose feeding into the intake manifold
So, all this seems to add up to an airflow problem based on what I know and have researched but before I go shop for a 6 blade fan and seal off the shroud gaps up top...is there anything else I could try or check? Seems unlikely that this combo will resolve this anyways?
Combustion leak test doesn't make sense based on it only happening at idle...correct?
Surely would appreciate any insights!
Excellent Work And Attention To Details....It Should Haul The Mail Right Along...Thanks...
Chad, first off your work to date is superb and it looks great. Overheating with these cars is not unusual when modifications are made (even some guys with stock setups also encounter some issues). I had problems with my black car (327/365, with headers) that were similar that I fought and so I bought a new Dewitts aluminum radiator and it helped a bit but not entirely. Then I switched from my clutch fan to a 6 blade 18” fan with the stock fan shroud and it helped an awful lot-only occasional overheating. Then I played with my stock dual point distributor that had no advance canister and eventually tried a stock distributor with single points but a good canister hooked up to the intake and not to the carburetor port and it really helped. I eventually went to and still run a Mallory with a vacuum advance canister. These cars seem to like it and I have read with today’s gas it may be different and more necessary-true or not, who knows-whatever. I also run a supplemental small electric pusher fan in front of the radiator with a toggle switch so if I get in silly traffic I can turn it on and keep my temp down. The car has done well with these changes and the only heating problem I have now is with my stock fuel pump location absorbing heat and vapor locking (which I will try and remedy in the spring with a supplemental fuel pump back by the tank to push when it get in heavy traffic). I recently had an issue in heavy traffic but my temp was around 200* (which is fine) but it vapor locked. The traffic jam did not push my temp way up-my car just does not like my fuel pump being so stuffed in that small area I suppose.
When I built my avatar car and finished it in 2013 I had all sorts of overheating issues. It has a big block and I heard all of the horror stories an old wives tales from “friends”. I rushed to get the car done for 2013 Autorama and did not worry about overheating as it was the cold of winter. In the spring it did pretty much the same as your car. I went with a Dewitt radiator and talked to Tom Dewitt before ordering it and he told me with a modified big block he would go with this super-duper Dewitt radiator with an attached Spal electric fan with a small attached shroud. It did not help. I tried all sorts of fixes to the shroud-advance etc etc. Nothing seemed to work and it frustrated the hell out of me. I had the car registered to go to the 2013 Meltdown and knew it would never last in the staging lanes so in desperation I ordered a 18” blade fan from Summit, cut off the shroud to the radiator (against the advice of some “experts”) and installed the 6 blade fan and a stock shroud and since then the car has done very well. I also run a Mallory similar to my black car and also run a small pusher just in case. I have guys tell me the pushers restrict the flow but I have found that to not be the case at all. When I run it in heavy traffic I occasionally turn it on by a toggle and as soon as traffic clears I turn it off. It has worked well for me.
Even though you have removed your hood remember there is very little room under the hood and they seem to hold heat. With your supercharger I can only imagine that it may trap more heat than normal just due to the real estate it takes up. What I did to help ease some of the heat is to change the pans that sit just rearward of the front tires (the one under the battery tray on the right side and washer bottle on the left side). They seem to trap the heat so what I did was to make a short pan that looks stock when looking in the wheel well but is pretty much totally open on the bottom so heat hopefully escapes a bit more easily. My car is covered but if you want me to photograph it I will.
As to the 18” fans they have hit the lower part of my shroud so I take a long piece of wood and “reshape” it with the fan it the car and rotate the fan and hit it in a few well place areas of the lower shroud. With some care it can look stock. I have hammered on it a bit to make it look smooth and I do not even notice it anymore.
Also the front rubber seals are important and I have added some of my own. Some guys say they have had success without running the front license plate but I do not run a front plate so no issues there.
Not sure with the location of the fan in the shroud but you do not have too many choices that come to mind.
These issues can be a real pain and hopefully you will be able to correct it easily. If it was me I would try a 6 blade 18” fan and a distributor with a vacuum can hooked directly to the intake just for kicks. If it does not help you have lost little. Small block Chevy distributors are quite common so maybe you could “borrow” one just for a test. Good luck.
absolutely agree on removing front license plate!!-first thing to do!
Thanks for the details Jim, great to hear, that is my next move. I’ll double check on shroud diameter again, I think I have room to rework it’s opening.
I’ve refused to run a front license plate since I was a teenager, so that’s not a problem.
Thanks for the inner splash pan tip, mine aren’t in yet…just wanted everything sorted before final assembly. I’m kinda digging no front bumper though, just more rugged I suppose.
A pusher fan would be the most obvious non period correct element in the engine compartment but I’m thinking it will be essential based on my setup and I’ve never agreed about a pusher blocking airflow on a car that runs cool whilst driving.
The most mysterious part for me is this was a bolt on configuration in ‘63. I’d really love to know how it worked back before I was born!!!
Chad for whatever it is worth I looked in my build book and apparently noted the pusher fan I used. It is a 10” standard pusher Perma Cool (Motor rpm 3295, amp draw 4.7) 30 amp 2350 cfm, part #19120. I ran a power wire then looped back under my dash to a toggle switch thru an inline fuse just in case. I am enclosing a picture I took today to show they are all black and you have to really look for it IMO. When I go to some car events that have you in traffic after I switch it on I can see my temperature drop from let’s say 205 back in the 190 range. I suppose if I sat idling for a really long time it may bite me but so far so good as far as dealing with rising temps.
My 18” fan in the one car is a Derale Rigid Race fan (maybe both would have to do some checking). The flex fans are not something I am a fan of, so I go with rigid. They are a bit noisier than a clutch stock setup but it is a trade off IMO.
And I agree as to how they did it back in the day but then there are all sorts of similar questions-like how did the guys on the line get all this stuff accomplished in a much easier manner than all of us supposedly talented guys (like installing the dash pad and other mysteries).
Thanks for the fan info and photo, I looked at the Derale fans but for now I'm gonna spend the money and go with a stock 7 blade fan and bend some shroud metal. Probably silly but still trying to stay true to the period.
From there, all I can do is install a pusher as my last effort.
Headers are coming off again as well, I messed up when I painted them, I wasn't thinking about running in the cam upon start up, which screwed the proper curing process for the paint! Now they're getting ceramic put on them(don't tell anyone). Man these units are tricky...clutch pivot assembly, oil filter, steering arm bump stop, starter, road draft tube etc are all in the way.
And the mysteries will just continue on I reckon.
I can't say thank you enough to Jon from The Carburetor Shop, I've never worked on YH carbs before and he's helped me with soooo many questions. Looking forward to having these old timers looking "nearly" like new!
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